Godot 4.0 launched!

Everything about development and the OpenMW source code.
KnightoftheWind
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Godot 4.0 launched!

Post by KnightoftheWind »

Not really relevant to OpenMW at this point in time, but the long-awaited Godot 4.0 has finally been launched!. With a bevy of new features and fixes. https://godotengine.org/article/godot-4-0-sets-sail/

What do the devs think of this release?, would it possible to convert OpenMW to this engine?. Would it offer any advantages whatsoever?. Or are things completely fine as they are?. :lol:
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AnyOldName3
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Re: Godot 4.0 launched!

Post by AnyOldName3 »

If OpenMW didn't exist and we wanted to create it from scratch in 2023, starting with Godot would be a reasonable idea. Now we've already got OpenMW, though, we're closer to what we're aiming to be than Godot is.
KnightoftheWind
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Re: Godot 4.0 launched!

Post by KnightoftheWind »

AnyOldName3 wrote: 02 Mar 2023, 01:47 If OpenMW didn't exist and we wanted to create it from scratch in 2023, starting with Godot would be a reasonable idea. Now we've already got OpenMW, though, we're closer to what we're aiming to be than Godot is.
Hypothetically, could any of the work be transferred over or would everything have to be done from scratch?. :?:
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psi29a
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Re: Godot 4.0 launched!

Post by psi29a »

KnightoftheWind wrote: 02 Mar 2023, 01:55
Hypothetically, could any of the work be transferred over or would everything have to be done from scratch?. :?:
Easier said that done. You'll need to transform all data into something Godot understands natively. Since we're still poking at data-structures and RE now (we're not done yet), it's just not that simple.

Getting Godot to do open world stuff is also not straight forward and people are still coming up with solutions, while we have something that already works.

Thankfully OpenMW doesn't compete with Godot; we're pretty niche and focused on one thing rather than a general purpose engine.

If someone wants to take this up and start their own Morrowind on Godot project, awesome, we'd love to hear about it. :)
KnightoftheWind
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Re: Godot 4.0 launched!

Post by KnightoftheWind »

I figured that, it's a shame because it looks like the engine has a lot of nice features. But maybe starting another project for Morrowind is redundant, perhaps it's best that Oblivion and/or Skyrim get the free software treatment instead. I wonder if it'd be easier than trying to make those compatible with OpenMW?.
polynomial
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Re: Godot 4.0 launched!

Post by polynomial »

KnightoftheWind wrote: 02 Mar 2023, 16:17 I figured that, it's a shame because it looks like the engine has a lot of nice features. But maybe starting another project for Morrowind is redundant, perhaps it's best that Oblivion and/or Skyrim get the free software treatment instead. I wonder if it'd be easier than trying to make those compatible with OpenMW?.
It may help to appreciate: Take any game you've ever played that you liked. Now wonder: "I'd love to see this to have an OS version." For that to happen, just assume it takes bare a minimum 5 years. That's with a labor of love free-time volunteer effort of at least 5-10 people with specialized skills.

The amount of time required for game engine coding is massive. From nothing to 5 years to playable would be extremely fast (remember, hobby/free-time, side fun). Projects like OpenMW are very, very rare.

Not saying this to talk down or diminish! Just giving you a heads up that it's uncommon to find OS versions of games because it takes an immense amount of work (even if built with Unity/Godot/Unreal).
KnightoftheWind
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Re: Godot 4.0 launched!

Post by KnightoftheWind »

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad OpenMW exists in any state. It's good to be able to play Morrowind on modern PCs with numerous enhancements, especially Linux. But I like to research these sorts of things every now and then (Godot and Rust), and wonder if they would offer any benefits for projects like OpenMW. I don't doubt that it's very difficult to work on source ports, and it only gets harder with newer titles since they are a lot more complex.

But despite how much fun I have with titles like Skyrim, it's a shame that they are riddled with so many bugs and nuisances. Not to mention exclusivity to W*ndows. Fan-made patches help somewhat, but it's still nowhere near what it should be. Oblivion is in an even worse state, and honestly I think it needs a source port the most since it's perhaps the most broken title in the series. It's legacy as a meme is a testament to that.

I'm hotly anticipating the future of OpenMW, It's great to see a classic game like Morrowind being preserved and improved beyond it's limitations, and hopefully it'll remain playable for years to come.
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psi29a
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Re: Godot 4.0 launched!

Post by psi29a »

Oblivion is in an even worse state, and honestly I think it needs a source port the most
But we're not making a source port... we don't have access to the source. Bethesda never dropped it for any of their games.
KnightoftheWind wrote: 02 Mar 2023, 16:17perhaps it's best that Oblivion and/or Skyrim get the free software treatment instead. I wonder if it'd be easier than trying to make those compatible with OpenMW?.
Like we're doing now? :lol:

OpenMW's future...
https://imgur.com/a/HmazxV0

Most of our time goes into researching how things work and reverse engineering. Godot and Rust aren't going to make that go faster, it will actually slow things down as developers retool and that could take years to get to the point where we are now with OpenMW and C++.
KnightoftheWind
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Re: Godot 4.0 launched!

Post by KnightoftheWind »

psi29a wrote: 02 Mar 2023, 22:58
Oblivion is in an even worse state, and honestly I think it needs a source port the most
But we're not making a source port... we don't have access to the source. Bethesda never dropped it for any of their games.
KnightoftheWind wrote: 02 Mar 2023, 16:17perhaps it's best that Oblivion and/or Skyrim get the free software treatment instead. I wonder if it'd be easier than trying to make those compatible with OpenMW?.
Like we're doing now? :lol:

OpenMW's future...
https://imgur.com/a/HmazxV0

Most of our time goes into researching how things work and reverse engineering. Godot and Rust aren't going to make that go faster, it will actually slow things down as developers retool and that could take years to get to the point where we are now with OpenMW and C++.
Thanks for the screenshots, they're quite a sight!. I didn't think the other games would be as far along as they seem to be. The thought of Oblivion actually being playable is fascinating :lol:

Sorry, I just tend to use the term "source port" to describe these sorts of projects. Where a game is updated and converted to a new engine. Yeah I'd never suggest that the product start over from scratch with Godot and Rust, that sounds like something John Romero would probably do and it's not like you guys could see 10 years into the future anyway.
shihan42
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Re: Godot 4.0 launched!

Post by shihan42 »

One major problem with all those fancy new engines like Godot (or Unreal, or Unity) is that they are very opinionated about the asset tooling. All these engines give you nice features, but require you to supply the assets in a certain way. Then when transforming the project inside the engines editor into something actually useful, it does a ton of stuff with the assets (converting, optimizing, packing, etc.).

If you take an existing game you'll get a big bucket of assets already packed for that exactly game. The first thing is to understand how that data is organized. That's what psi29a meant with saying that the part of reverse engineering is a big part of engine reimplementation.

And after that, you'd need to think about converting these assets into a format that those general purpose engines happily accept. That also takes a big amount of time. That time could be better used implementing a custom taylored engine for the game in question ;)

I'm with you, it is exiting to see all those possibilities for aspiring game developers. But the detours one needs to take to coerce them old assets and that new fancy general purpose engine together are long and windy. And that's often not worth the effort, I'd like to think.
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