Essesntial NPC Death Messages

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Essesntial NPC Death Messages

Post by jackdaws » 15 Dec 2018, 22:12

I noticed a few weeks ago, whilst walking outdoors in the vicinity of the temple in Vivec, that I was getting the "With this character's death the thread of prohecy is broken..." message. Obviously, I had to solve the problem, so I tried trial and error on the mods I had installed, but even when all the mods were disabled I still got the message. The only thing that seemed to fix it was to revert the CELL "exterior cell load distance" settings to the default (one cell). This seemed to be the problem, so I settled for this, and also reduced CAMERA settings "viewing distance" down to 8000.

The problem went away after this revert, even after re-enabling all the mods I was using. However, I've found now that the problem has returned, whilst walking through the wilderness south of Ebonheart. Is there another setting that might interfere with scripts/quests the way that CELL "exterior cell load distance" can? Am I likely to have any benefit from reducing the CAMERA settings "viewing distance" down to the default 6666? I'm pretty sure it's none of the mods (see above). I'm using the development build of OpenMW. Apart from this problem everything seems to be working fine.

PS I'm running it on Windows 7 64 bit.

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Re: Essesntial NPC Death Messages

Post by Jodiwe » 20 Dec 2018, 13:30

Can you provide a save file when you're in the area it does it?
Which development version are you using?

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Re: Essesntial NPC Death Messages

Post by TehDoctor » 20 Dec 2018, 14:08

I had the exact same problem in the exact same area. As it turned out, an essential NPC somehow ended up in the water and got drowned. Fixed it by using "resetActors" command in time. Might be something else on your side, but I'd give it a try.
I also witnessed some other NPCs (mostly shipmasters) ending up the same way so the problem is pretty common on my side :s

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Re: Essesntial NPC Death Messages

Post by wareya » 20 Dec 2018, 18:13

Certain NPCs magically teleport through what they're standing on when they load from save games for some reason.
paying attention to #1751 #2473 #3609 #3862/#3929 #3807 #4297 #4623

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Re: Essesntial NPC Death Messages

Post by jackdaws » 20 Dec 2018, 21:56

Thanks for the replies. The version number is 10a049b087 but the problem first arose with release 0.44. I did try the latest development last week but had a problem saving out of doors, so went back to 10a049b087. Sorry if this doesn't help. I haven't got a save-game file either, since - the problem effectively being so "game ending" - I've always gone back to before the problem started. So far, it hasn't happened again since I reduced the visibility to normal, but at the moment I'm doing my best to avoid Vivec south and Ebonheart, which obviously can't go on for ever. If it does happen again, I'll make sure I save the game and supply it for the brainiacs to do forensics on it ;-) .

I'd be reluctant to just reset the actors, unless I knew for certain it would still be worth carrying on afterwards, since I do so much want to get to kill Dagoth Ur again!! Short of a supplied solution, I'm just reporting the issue and hoping to avoid it as best as I can for the rest of the game.

It's good at least to know that the problem has been repeated in other people's games. Maybe a fix will emerge. All the same, I must say that OpenMW is so much more stable than the original version. Years ago, I'd be saving every five minutes in the expectation of the inevitable crash. Until this problem arose, I could play all day without worry, so well done to all the devs.

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Re: Essesntial NPC Death Messages

Post by Atahualpa » 21 Dec 2018, 20:12

Hm, do you mind some extra research, jackdaws?

I had a look at the list of essential NPCs in Morrowind. Assuming the NPC in question is located near/in Ebonheart or Vivec (and ignoring interior cells), I found two candidates: Danso Indules and Blatta Hateria. Would you be so kind as to load your save game, travel to Vivec, and try to reprocude the death message? (Great view distance, quick save/load, low FPS...)
If you manage to trigger that message, visit the abovementioned NPCs and check whether they are still alive (the TCL command might be useful in case of actors glitching through the ground of, say, a vivec canton). Further steps could be discussed here.

Anyway, that would be of great help to us. :)

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Re: Essesntial NPC Death Messages

Post by jackdaws » 22 Dec 2018, 00:02

Thanks for asking. It seems that the lovely lady from the Vivec Temple, Danso Indules, can't swim! See below for the settings.cfg. As soon as I get half way past St. Olms I get the message, and Danso isn't where she should be. TCL lets me travel below the High Fane, where she's dead at the bottom of the sea. Blatta is still at her post in Ebonheart, when I get there, looking as lively as ever (maybe she's a good swimmer, too :D ). In case it is relevant, I checked in afterwards with Caius, and he's as normal, unbeknownst of any essential npc death.

Code: Select all

rebalance soul gem values = true
best attack = true
show owned = 2
difficulty = 50
show melee info = true
show projectile damage = true
weapon sheathing = true
use additional anim sources = true
barter disposition change is permanent = true
charge for every follower travelling = true

allow third person zoom = true
toggle sneak = true
camera sensitivity = 0.35
always run = false

max quicksaves = 5
timeplayed = true
character = Tinnitus

antialiasing = 4
fullscreen = true
resolution x = 1920
resolution y = 1080
vsync = true
gamma = 0.95

anisotropy = 4
texture mipmap = linear

exterior cell load distance = 2
preload instances = true
preload enabled = true
preload num threads = 3
preload exterior grid = true
preload cell cache min = 20
preload cell cache max = 40
preload cell expiry delay = 15
target framerate = 60
prediction time = 3

reflect actors = true
refraction = true
rtt size = 2048
shader = true

master volume = 0.325833
music volume = 0.332233
sfx volume = 0.5
footsteps volume = 0.12
voice volume = 0.75

crosshair = true

menu transparency = 0.6
tooltip delay = 0

global = false
global map cell size = 32
local map resolution = 384
local map widget size = 768
local map hud widget size = 384

dialogue h = 0.419444
dialogue w = 0.492188
dialogue x = 0.272917
dialogue y = 0.578704
inventory h = 0.4
inventory w = 0.557813
inventory x = 0.0161458
inventory y = 0.447222
map h = 0.72963
map w = 0.795313
map x = 0.00885417
map y = 0.0407407
spells h = 0.790741
spells w = 0.2
spells x = 0.8
spells y = 0.0296296
stats h = 0.45
stats w = 0.4
stats x = 0.00572917
stats y = 0
container h = 0.384259
container w = 0.388542
container x = 0.575
container y = 0.540741
inventory container h = 0.37963
inventory container w = 0.473437
inventory container x = 0.0145833
inventory container y = 0.539815

field of view = 55
viewing distance = 21000

distant terrain = true

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Re: Essesntial NPC Death Messages

Post by Atahualpa » 22 Dec 2018, 00:56

Ah, nice find. :) IIRC, we had some issues with the Vivec canton meshes in the past, because they have quite big triangles. What was your frame rate in that scenario? Maybe there are some problems with collision? (Just speculating here...)

To make sure: You loaded your game and then walked to Vivec? No saving/loading in Vivec?

jackdaws wrote:
22 Dec 2018, 00:02
In case it is relevant, I checked in afterwards with Caius, and he's as normal, unbeknownst of any essential npc death.
That is expected behaviour. Danso becomes important later in the main quest.

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Re: Essesntial NPC Death Messages

Post by jackdaws » 22 Dec 2018, 01:25

FPS was about 15-17. However, my fps on the most recent occurrence of the NPC Death message - post rollback to exterior cell load distance of 1 and 8000 viewing distance - was about 50-60. Do you thing that my preload cell settings might be involved. I set those when I had an exterior cell load distance of 2 - as a means of increasing fps and decreasing loading messages - and haven't reverted them. I could upload the save-game file (12mb) if you want, but you'll have to tell me how. I tried to do some screenshots, but failed. Yes, I walked into Vivec (ran, actually). from the North Bridge.

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Re: Essesntial NPC Death Messages

Post by AnyOldName3 » 22 Dec 2018, 01:55

If it's the Vivec cantons, I'm pretty sure that's one of the things sorted by switching to double-precision Bullet, which is the plan going forward. There's not much else we can do about it.
AnyOldName3, Master of Shadows

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