first pass at third person over the shoulder option

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crassell
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Re: first pass at third person over the shoulder option

Post by crassell » 31 Aug 2017, 15:29

Chris wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 14:52
Why add a config option just to add over-the-shoulder to the existing modes? If it's not replacing anything, why have an extra step to enable it?
There seemed to be a desire to have this configured in order to still retain a truly vanilla experience when its configured off. If that isn't a contentious thing, I can remove the configuration altogether.
Chris wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 14:52
Seems to me there doesn't really need to be a distinction between third-person and third-person over-the-shoulder. The latter is just the former with a X/Y offset, isn't it? Simply adding some offset configuration options would create the same effect (and allow users to tweak their desired offset, if they prefer a larger or smaller offset, farther up or down, or on the left instead of the right).
With the current changesets, I agree the change is only offset based although there is some distance manipulation in Z as well as x and y offset to get the placement just right. I can expose all of these but there is ideally a known good configuration for over the shoulder at all resolutions so a majority of players don't have to constantly tweak. I agree with you that a mirror over the shoulder for the right side would also be a good option provided we can align the weapon hand placement to adjust / match when that occurs.

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Ravenwing
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Re: first pass at third person over the shoulder option

Post by Ravenwing » 31 Aug 2017, 16:53

I think I'm the only person in the world who prefers centered third person lol. But I think having a config option would be handy. Usually people only want one type of third person, so why have to cycle through the options. I forget what game I was playing but it had all the options, and it was really annoying to cycle through first person, third centered, third right, then third left. Unless people start asking for the camera position to change, there probably isn't much reason to add the option to specify the offsets, but I'm also a fan of total customization so I certainly wouldn't complain.

The way I envision the settings is a boolean to enable over the shoulder third person, then a set of settings for the offset, with whatever you find the best position to be as the default. That way you can have an in game button to enable the over shoulder, but also a way of changing the offset if you want.

Chris
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Re: first pass at third person over the shoulder option

Post by Chris » 31 Aug 2017, 17:10

crassell wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 15:29
There seemed to be a desire to have this configured in order to still retain a truly vanilla experience when its configured off. If that isn't a contentious thing, I can remove the configuration altogether.
Some configuration option is fine, whether it's an enable and/or offset values. But there doesn't seem to be a reason to cycle between centered and over-the-shoulder separately. A config option would simply "replace" the centered third-person with over-the-shoulder third-person by adding an offset to the camera, so when enabled, you cycle between first-person and third-person over-the-shoulder (and the default, off, would have you cycle between first-person and third-person centered like vanilla).

crassell
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Re: first pass at third person over the shoulder option

Post by crassell » 31 Aug 2017, 20:51

The consensus here seems to mirror the opinions on the pull request:

https://github.com/OpenMW/openmw/pull/1425

I will remove the cycling support and only toggle between first and the active third person, keep the config (with a caveat that we have to fix localization), and add the granular offset configuration to the settings file for x,y, and z for the camera in case people want to tweak from the default.

crassell
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Re: first pass at third person over the shoulder option

Post by crassell » 05 Sep 2017, 05:08

Re-posting my summary from the pull request comments here for some possible feedback from others:

This is a video of aim alignment happening in third person over the shoulder archery:
https://youtu.be/_7xBR2rQL7s

Not commit ready but feedback is welcome. What I don't like is the amount of fluctuation when lining up to the target but i may be able to minimize that with some tweaks. Another option is to stop aligning the entire player with the target under crosshair and just adjust the projectile. Technically the projectile would be bending relative to the orientation of the player for the projectile adjustment option. It might be very noticeable that the alignment from the bow shot is wrong on a close range shot. Thoughts?

raven
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Re: first pass at third person over the shoulder option

Post by raven » 06 Sep 2017, 09:57

It looks good imho except for a few moments where the aim seems to be off, 0:26 in the video.

If you can make the bow arm and the head always point/look at the crosshair when aiming it should be fine.

crassell
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Re: first pass at third person over the shoulder option

Post by crassell » 07 Sep 2017, 03:35

I just put a check in to stop head rotation. By bow arm always pointing to the crosshair I'm guessing you mean when the aim wildly swings away as a result of bad tracking. I have to make slight adjustments towards and away from the crosshair to triangulate towards the target under the crosshair.

raven
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Re: first pass at third person over the shoulder option

Post by raven » 07 Sep 2017, 18:41

Why do you have to triangulate at all?

crassell
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Re: first pass at third person over the shoulder option

Post by crassell » 09 Sep 2017, 03:23

raven wrote:
07 Sep 2017, 18:41
Why do you have to triangulate at all?
There's an angle created between the camera perspective and the player model perspective to meet the target under the crosshair when the bow is fired. This is inevitable in third person over the shoulder because of the placement of the player model relative to the camera.

crassell
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Re: first pass at third person over the shoulder option

Post by crassell » 16 Sep 2017, 03:36

Posting here in case anyone else is still interested in testing out the options for third person over the shoulder targeting:

https://github.com/OpenMW/openmw/pull/1425

I explain in the last comment the 2 options I implemented as candidates for target alignment for shooting. If anyone is interested, please test them both out and see which one feels more natural.

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