Mods That Respect Morrowind

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RounIcarus
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Re: Mods That Respect Morrowind

Post by RounIcarus » 29 Feb 2020, 00:43

Time4Tea wrote:
28 Feb 2020, 23:09
RounIcarus wrote:
28 Feb 2020, 22:12
So how does the game come first when there are thousands of years of history and tales of far away lands.
You know those thousands of years of history are just imaginary, right? That never actually happened ...
RounIcarus wrote:
28 Feb 2020, 22:12
Tell me, why would Akavir be mentioned at all if for six games, you never go there... You never see races from there... Its a whole continent with its own peoples and history. Why make that a part of canon if you never intended to make a game out of it?
Presumably, because they wanted to flesh out the backstory of the setting by describing some far-off places that it was never intended for the player to actually visit? For the same reason they would come up with the afore-mentioned thousand year history, even though the player would never start at year zero and play through all of it? I'm not sure what point you are trying to make - there is no reason why background about distant places or historical events couldn't be added or expanded after the release of the original game.

From the Wikipedia article about the development of Elder Scrolls: Arena:
Although the team had dropped all arena combat from the end game, because all the material had already been printed up with the title, the game went to market as The Elder Scrolls: Arena. The team came up with a lore-friendly explanation for this, being because the Empire of Tamriel was so violent, it had been nicknamed the Arena. It was Lakshman who came up with the idea of "The Elder Scrolls", and though, in the words of Peterson, "I don't think he knew what the hell it meant any more than we did", the words eventually came to mean "Tamriel's mystical tomes of knowledge that told of its past, present, and future." The game's initial voice-over was changed in response, beginning: "It has been foretold in the Elder Scrolls ..."
Yep, seems like they gave some serious forethought to the canonical fantasy setting planning right there. However, it's all grown into something vibrant and wonderful, through being expanded and built on by some very creative people through the later games.
"You know those thousands of years of history are just imaginary, right? That never actually happened ..." Right, because this game is imaginary, it never actually happened... Thats why we spend hour after hour playing it and countless hours modding it... Because it doesnt actually exist... That "imaginary history" is vastly responsible for this "imaginary game" to have every last circumstance occur exactly the way it did...

Why are you only talking about Arena? Were here talking about Morrowind... The basis for your whole argument about Morrowind is that Arena blah blah blah... You take things away from the central point because you are a tactical liar... I know that political tactic myself, distract from the main point so you can win a distracted argument... I know what you are doing...

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Five ... _Wulfharth This was a book in Morrowind, It mentions Alduin... Its the backstory for SKYRIM released WAY BACK WHEN MORROWIND WAS! They already knew what was going to happen because the original story tellers had already thought things through... You keep pointing at things that dont matter. Frankly, why are you even here? I am here to talk about mods, and all you want to do is flame the thread... Why dont all you trolls take your nonsense out of here?

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AnyOldName3
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Re: Mods That Respect Morrowind

Post by AnyOldName3 » 29 Feb 2020, 01:50

They really didn't know the plot of Skyrim when they were making Morrowind. That in-game book is a long way from a complete and consistent account of what Skyrim tells us about everyone and everything involved. However, when they needed a name for the big bad boss in Skyrim, they pulled one from the existing lore for an entity that was similar enough. It's possible someone had the beginnings of an idea of what would become the plot of Skyrim (as one of many ideas that mostly didn't become games), but it's just as likely that the book (particularly the earlier parts that aren't directly related to Morrowind's plot) was written by stringing together made-up fantasy names with no backstory in a way that sounds a bit like the bible just to pad it out so it didn't feel like you were picking up an encyclopedia article on who all the important characters in the main plot were. It's vague enough that it doesn't really say anything, and the little that it does say doesn't match what Alduin can actually do in Skyrim.

I brought up Arena because it's literally the creation of the Elder Scrolls universe and it's happening after a significant amount of work has already gone into the first Elder Scrolls game. This is something you'd said didn't happen. I'd already linked the really interesting Polygon article about Morrowind's development, which you clearly haven't read, so I thought a simpler counterargument would be clearer.

If you're going to start accusing people of arguing in bad faith, you suddenly discounting Arena as a disproof of your point is textbook moving-the-goalposts. I'd rather we didn't go down that route, though, as that's guaranteed to turn this into an actual flamewar, rather than the current situation of one guy being wrong about something and people trying to correct them.

I'll leave you with some more evidence that Bethesda don't think about their plots ahead of time. Daggerfall has six mutually-exclusive endings. That's not something you do if you're thinking as far ahead as a sequel unless you're planning on save importing, which wasn't a thing back then. They had to invent the concept of a Dragon Break so they could say all six timelines magically happened in parallel and then joined back up. This wasn't a concept that was mentioned at all before Morrowind, and is also what triggered a lot of the bonkers mythology that so many people like about the post-Daggerfall games.
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silentthief
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Re: Mods That Respect Morrowind

Post by silentthief » 29 Feb 2020, 02:56

I seem to remember a similar thread about something like this a while back. Something like the "morrowind definitive mod list" post here. There are lore-friendly mods and non-lore friendly mods, and I don't know if even the vanilla mod community has a full list of what mods are on which side.

While it looks like you may not find what you are looking for here, I did see that you can find results for a google search "morrowind lore friendly mods" which looks promising. Bear in mind that no one single person created the world in which Vardenfell resides in, you may find that the mods that you find with this search have not been tested yet on openmw, and lastly you may find that the information found at those links is subjective (one persons view of lore friendly may not align with anothers). YMMV

ST
"You like to dance close to the fire, don't you?."

Time4Tea
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Re: Mods That Respect Morrowind

Post by Time4Tea » 29 Feb 2020, 04:42

The reason people are talking about Arena is because it is relevant, not because it's some distraction tactic. For a start, it was the first ES game and, secondly, it was the first game to feature Morrowind province. Travel to Morrowind in Arena and explore for a while. Does it include all of the rich and complex background and lore that the later Morrowind game does? No, it doesn't. So, this is an example that shows how background for the Elder Scrolls setting was developed gradually, as the games progressed, rather than coming from some original master source that pre-dates all the games, as you seemed to be suggesting.

As for calling me a 'tactical liar' ... can you point to something specific I said where I lied? That seems a bit unwarranted. After all, we're just having a discussion and I only happen to disagree with you.

You want to talk mods, fine, let's talk mods ... which 3 or 4 mods are you most interested in?

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psi29a
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Re: Mods That Respect Morrowind

Post by psi29a » 02 Mar 2020, 06:48

RounIcarus wrote:Dude, I got through the first two lines of your post and all I can see is flaming... Reread what I said... You BOTH totally missed the point... Which came first, the story or the game? "why would you expect that modders would stay faithful to that vision" Because violating canon is now you kill a franchise dude... Im not going to argue common sense with you... Figure it out...
Hmmm...
RounIcarus wrote:
28 Feb 2020, 22:12
BECAUSE THE STORY CAME FIRST!!! YOU DONT HAVE A PURPOSE IN MAKING A GAME UNLESS YOU HAVE A PRE ESTABLISHED NARRATIVE!! USE COMMON SENSE!
Nice... sadly common sense isn't very common.

the only person who seems to be flaming here is you my friend. There are multiple people here telling you something you disagree with. Ever stop to consider that you might be wrong? Can you point to any sources on the Internet that supports your thoughts, that they are just not your own? We're very much into learning new things, especially if true and cited/sourced and not a work of fiction of itself, since it conflicts with many other sources of information to the contrary, including from the developers of the Elder Scroll's universe itself.

Read up here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elder_Scrolls:_Arena
https://www.polygon.com/2019/3/27/18281 ... y-bethesda

Also please read this Interview with Ted Peterson who wrote many of the books/story in Morrowind:
https://www.imperial-library.info/conte ... d-peterson

However the author of Five Songs of the King Wulfharth that you cited was written by Michael Kirkbride
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Five ... _Wulfharth

This in-game book was written by MK, as were many. But MK was one of many people writing lore, meaning that while he did have an impact on the ES world, it was just as important is the other contributors. All those ideas are copyrighted by Bethesda/Zenimax so they had a ready made barrel full of ideas in order to create new games.

Morrowind got its spark from Daggerfall which got it's spark from Arena. You can say that Arena was really the game that was created before the TES lore was fully developed, but enough was created to create Daggerfall and so on and by the time Morrowind came around, the world/lore was more established. Oblivion/Skyrim was pretty much copy-paste from lore created from the previous games.

Anyway, I don't see how this topic has anything to do with the original thread. Do you mind if we split this off?

RounIcarus
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Re: Mods That Respect Morrowind

Post by RounIcarus » 05 Mar 2020, 10:00

silentthief wrote:
29 Feb 2020, 02:56
I seem to remember a similar thread about something like this a while back. Something like the "morrowind definitive mod list" post here. There are lore-friendly mods and non-lore friendly mods, and I don't know if even the vanilla mod community has a full list of what mods are on which side.

While it looks like you may not find what you are looking for here, I did see that you can find results for a google search "morrowind lore friendly mods" which looks promising. Bear in mind that no one single person created the world in which Vardenfell resides in, you may find that the mods that you find with this search have not been tested yet on openmw, and lastly you may find that the information found at those links is subjective (one persons view of lore friendly may not align with anothers). YMMV

ST
Yeah, that thread from 2014 was one of my last attempts to do this... Look how that turned out... I dont remember all the specifics on that because it was six years ago, but what happens is that I try really hard, get stressed out, no one contributes to a 'group project' and when someone flings crap at me I give up. Every time I come back its harder to try again... One time I was banned from the Nexus forums because I dared to say that one faces replacer was the definition of what not to use. It was literally a photo shop cut and paste of real faces that was so immersive breaking that it felt exactly like one of those weird youtube videos where their making satire with no intention of making something look good. Morrowind by nature is cartoonish, thats what makes it easy to mod with. Slapping high res actual faces on a cartoon is horrifying.... And because I was objective at the time I was banned from the nexus forums. I got my second and third strikes from the same admin because I objected to be struck in the first place...

I get nothing but hate from people. The problem is simply that people have no respect... Seriously, I started this thread to talk about mods and the majority of posts have been to disparage the primary purpose of having this thread... That should result in strikes against peoples accounts... But instead I get hated for caring about something and struck for being objective...

Heres the bottom line... This goes for everyone... People love fiction because it is the power to inspire. Marvel super heroes are so popular because they have great story arks epic tales of bravery and sacrifice. The power of fiction is in the suspension of disbelief. When people like Time4Tea say things like "You know those thousands of years of history are just imaginary, right? That never actually happened ..." thats a direct attack against suspension of disbelief... Good god, this is fiction, no shit it didnt really happen, but if we cant take things seriously then throw the whole thing out. People like Time4Tea might as well say he likes going around terrorizing children to ruin their innocence... He, and the others like him are blatant interlopers with no respect...

Morrowind inspires because it is a world all its own... I dont give a damn about peoples private personal feelings about it, the ONLY thing that matters is what you see at face value... That face value is what inspires... That is the muscle and bone of this living thing... I mean hell if we cant take the thing seriously then lets just admit that its ones and zeros, that there is no value to any of the dialogue because its scripted, that none of it is real and therefore doing anything with it is pointless... While were at it, ban Christmas... Thats a blatant lie we till children, lets ban a national holiday because hateful interlopers dont respect it...

And before all the trolling gets into full swing and this thread gets locked for no reason... There is NOTHING wrong with me... I came here with sincerity, I wanted to do something good, that was worth something. Aside from a few helpful suggestions all I see is forum rules violations. People going off topic, people trolling the thread, just a bunch of nonsense to avoid accepting that we live in a concrete universe... The real world is so convoluted that men cant be men, women can be women, you can identify as a toaster if you want to. God forbid anything should be taken seriously even in the face of reproductive biology... Here I sit, loving a fictional story that captured my imagination, that fed my childhood when I had very little else... Good god if I should want this respected, good god if I should want to make it into something more, something better, with respect...

I understand now that I will never get any help from anyone... I dont know how many times I have tried to get other people into a group to try and have some kind of teamwork effort. I mean the basic ethics of team work and cooperation are totally lost on people... But somehow there is something wrong with me... What a joke... I am so done with all the hostility, of these fools cant have respect then the just need to stop posting... Im flagging comments from now on, there is no excuse for people coming into a thread purpose minded to break it down...

CMAugust
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Re: Mods That Respect Morrowind

Post by CMAugust » 05 Mar 2020, 11:53

The most helpful websites, tools and advice for an ideal "purist" playthrough were swiftly provided, so the rest of the topic is unnecessary friction. You have everything needed for a good experience, so enjoy - although be sure to mention any technical issue if you come across them.

RounIcarus
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Re: Mods That Respect Morrowind

Post by RounIcarus » 05 Mar 2020, 12:55

CMAugust wrote:
05 Mar 2020, 11:53
The most helpful websites, tools and advice for an ideal "purist" playthrough were swiftly provided, so the rest of the topic is unnecessary friction. You have everything needed for a good experience, so enjoy - although be sure to mention any technical issue if you come across them.
And I thank you for being helpful early on, its just laughable that I have to explain basic shit to people... Like how suspension of disbelief is a useful tool in our lives... Good grief, some of these people are stupid...

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AnyOldName3
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Re: Mods That Respect Morrowind

Post by AnyOldName3 » 05 Mar 2020, 21:21

No one agrees with your description of how this thread went. Please try reviewing it while working under the assumption that no one was acting maliciously. You initially asked for things fulfilling criteria other people don't believe can be satisfied without more/different information, and every attempt to get some clarification from you has been met by you repeating the same request for things in line with something other people don't believe exists, and asserting that it does, despite evidence to the contrary, and bringing up orthogonal subjects as explanations for why the evidence wasn't evidence. Even if you still maintain that there was a single immutable vision for Morrowind, once it became clear that no one else here knew what it was, things would have gone much more smoothly had you described what you thought it was rather than continuing to insist everyone else should know what you were talking about.
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lysol
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Re: Mods That Respect Morrowind

Post by lysol » 05 Mar 2020, 23:00

RounIcarus, you got your mod recommendation list quite a while ago in the form of modding-openmw.com. What follows is a long pointless discussion where you call people you don't agree with "stupid". Please calm down. Relax. Play OpenMW in peace with any mod you want. Do this and we will all have a happy ending.

Continue to to flame people because you got offended by things that are in no way offensive, however, will require us to give you a short vacation from this forum.
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