Illuminated Order

Learn about OpenMW mod compatibility, check for problematic mods, discuss issues, and give us feedback about your experience with modded OpenMW.
Post Reply
User avatar
Jemolk
Posts: 191
Joined: 20 Mar 2017, 02:12
Location: Sadrith Mora

Illuminated Order

Post by Jemolk » 09 Jan 2019, 22:06

I went through and fixed the script errors in OpenCS, so the mod is mostly working. That is, until I hit the ritual to become a lich. Specifically, the test. Some fairly awkward things to note here -- first, the mod creates a clone of the player with all their gear, sets its fight value to 100, and its flee value to 0. Or at least, that's the intent. In OpenMW, the clone doesn't have the items. Further, the script fails to modify the clone's fight and flee values, I suspect because OpenMW modifies single instances whereas vanilla modifies the base object, and it runs across the actual player first (because of course it does). There's also another strange problem -- a script that's rather important to this fight working correctly, but isn't attached to anything and is never called by anything, from what I can tell. I will continue to investigate.

EDIT: I'm fairly sure something very strange is going on with this in vanilla, and it's somehow attaching the order_playertrialscript1 script to the player clone somehow. As for how it manages that, I have no idea.

User avatar
Amenophis
Posts: 267
Joined: 30 Oct 2011, 04:34
Location: Fortaleza - Ceará - Brasil

Re: Illuminated Order

Post by Amenophis » 09 Jan 2019, 22:54

I've already report this issue in the tracker. Take a look at the details to know how the scripts should work.
https://gitlab.com/OpenMW/openmw/issues ... ange-20432

In vanilla the clone can't move but will attack and spawn over the main plataform. In OpenMW it spawned somewhere in the corners of the arena and RUN defenseless from the player.

I think the main problem is how OpenMW treats a player's clone. To this works someone have to modify the engine to allow such exception. An ideal solution is such clone have a copy of all itens that the player have and the modder should forbid any loot after death.
My fixes and tweaks on vanilla and modded quests for Morrowind.
http://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/43107/?

User avatar
Capostrophic
Posts: 676
Joined: 22 Feb 2016, 20:32

Re: Illuminated Order

Post by Capostrophic » 09 Jan 2019, 23:20

I don't think that the player's clone is some kind of an exception in Morrowind. Rather all instances of the same object are really clones of each other synchronized until the state of a specific instance changes in a... different way (like containers described here), then it updates separately.

User avatar
Jemolk
Posts: 191
Joined: 20 Mar 2017, 02:12
Location: Sadrith Mora

Re: Illuminated Order

Post by Jemolk » 10 Jan 2019, 00:33

Capostrophic wrote:
09 Jan 2019, 23:20
I don't think that the player's clone is some kind of an exception in Morrowind. Rather all instances of the same object are really clones of each other synchronized until the state of a specific instance changes in a... different way (like containers described here), then it updates separately.
Yeah, pretty much. Generally modifying things in vanilla modifies the base object, whereas in OpenMW it modifies a single instance of the object. Honestly, I think it would be good to have a way to modify the base object, but doing things exactly as in vanilla is just, just no, please just no.

Just read that linked UESP page. Oh god that's screwed up. Oh god oh god oh god. Why would they do that? Why? That is such a colossal mess...

TriangleTooth
Posts: 5
Joined: 30 Nov 2017, 14:01

Re: Illuminated Order

Post by TriangleTooth » 10 Jan 2019, 19:00

So I guess the question would be should the original command affect the base, and a new command affect the reference? This seems the most compatible way to do it, but I guess it runs the risk of making the console commands more destructive if you don't realise that's what you're doing. No more so than vanilla, though.

I think this handling is the same reason mods that use a one-time script to change the fight value of a set of generic creatures (Great House Dagoth comes to mind) don't work properly - only 1 of each creature changes.

User avatar
Jemolk
Posts: 191
Joined: 20 Mar 2017, 02:12
Location: Sadrith Mora

Re: Illuminated Order

Post by Jemolk » 10 Jan 2019, 21:47

TriangleTooth wrote:
10 Jan 2019, 19:00
So I guess the question would be should the original command affect the base, and a new command affect the reference? This seems the most compatible way to do it, but I guess it runs the risk of making the console commands more destructive if you don't realise that's what you're doing. No more so than vanilla, though.
Probably. Dunno how feasible that actually is, though.
TriangleTooth wrote:
10 Jan 2019, 19:00
I think this handling is the same reason mods that use a one-time script to change the fight value of a set of generic creatures (Great House Dagoth comes to mind) don't work properly - only 1 of each creature changes.
Yes, precisely correct. It's also why, in vanilla, when you talk to one Ordinator while wearing the Indoril Helm or Cuirass, ALL Ordinators everywhere become permanently hostile to the player. The implementation in vanilla is simultaneously relied upon in a few rare but very high profile cases, like GHD and IO, and also fundamentally broken, like with the Ordinator armor script. It's similar in a way to the neverending debate about the proper inplementation of the "position" function in OpenMW -- because in vanilla, it's beyond broken, reacting in different and mutually incompatible ways depending on things that should be irrelevant.

TriangleTooth
Posts: 5
Joined: 30 Nov 2017, 14:01

Re: Illuminated Order

Post by TriangleTooth » 10 Jan 2019, 21:58

I guess that particular GHD bug could be solved by adding a script to every ash creature so it changes when you encounter them - compatibility be damned (I mean, that mod already has a lot of compatibility issues so eh).

Not sure what illuminated order could do. Skip on making the clone look like you, and just copy your stats one-by-one via script?

User avatar
Jemolk
Posts: 191
Joined: 20 Mar 2017, 02:12
Location: Sadrith Mora

Re: Illuminated Order

Post by Jemolk » 11 Jan 2019, 07:40

TriangleTooth wrote:
10 Jan 2019, 21:58
I guess that particular GHD bug could be solved by adding a script to every ash creature so it changes when you encounter them - compatibility be damned (I mean, that mod already has a lot of compatibility issues so eh).

Not sure what illuminated order could do. Skip on making the clone look like you, and just copy your stats one-by-one via script?
Could even copy your race, but you'd have to make a copy of each race individually. Sex, not sure if there's a way to get that via non-dialog script. Head/hair, definitely not. And cloning the player won't work at all. No way to copy over all the items and spells, either, at the moment. So it'd basically need to get a predetermined set of items and spells, wouldn't resemble the player physically, etc. Not even close to worth the effort, IMHO.

I'll settle for my current solution for now, which was to make an Altmer with several of the greater lich spells from Illuminated Order, plus a full suit of Daedric armor, the Robe of Drake's Pride, and the Gravedigger sword that Tienius Deletian, Helseth's guard captain from Tribunal, uses. And of course ensured that he couldn't be looted with the order_playertrialscript1, which I attached to him. I did all of this with an .omwaddon file dependent on Illuminated Order.esp that also fixes all the other script errors caught by the Verify function of the OpenCS. I could upload that somewhere if anyone wants, but I'm a bit nervous about it simply because I don't know how able I'd be to provide support if something goes horribly, horribly wrong with it.

Post Reply