About the number of clicks

[Tarius]

Here is an idea, if something takes more clicks than the original editor, its likely suboptimal.

Edit:
Posts that are not constructive and technical should go in other topic. Any other posts like this one will be removed.

Sir.

Edit:
Just splited.

sir

[Zini]

Here is an idea, if something takes more clicks than the original editor, its likely suboptimal.

I completely disagree with this statement. The number of clicks is a secondary measure; unless we are talking about a very common action that can not be performed by a keyboard shortcut.
In particular having a rarely performed action use more clicks can be a good thing, if that allows a cleaner, more minimalistic interface. Any general statement about the number of clicks is generally wrong. This needs to be examined on a case by case basis.

[Tarius]

Well I was not trying to be inflammatory or anything of that sort and I am sorry it got taken that way. I suppose I could have been less brief in my statement, but that wouldnt make the message any different.(if I was trying to be inflammatory you would know it, but that is rarely the case)

Anyway, my statement refers to workflow. Getting something done with less clicks of the mouse will generally be considered better than something that requires more clicks; this assumes that the things that need clicking are in similiar locations.
Yes, certain rarely used things could possibly be ignored, but who is to say they are rarely ignored? I can garuntee though that if its harder to do something compared to the original, people will complain. I have seen it before, somewhere else. My entire point though is that the people which use the CS alot should be the ones giving feedback on how things should be situated. No offense to any programmers, but I have seen more than a couple things which were designed easy to code but not easy to use for the end user.(no I am not saying you are taking the easy route, but I am saying you need someone who knows a thing or two about UI layout for this particular thing)

[Zini]

Some people will always complain. That is human nature. Shouldn't bother us.

My entire point though is that the people which use the CS alot should be the ones giving feedback on how things should be situated.

That would be me then. Since I am one of the lead developers of a large MW-based TC (U9: Redemption), I have extensive practical experience on using the CS. I have spend many hundred hours in that thing (I am not exaggerating here) and I have plenty of first hand experience of the most painful kind with the workflow.

One thing I learned from that is that the CS is junk. Totally. We will use my knowledge about the workflow, but we will not design an improved CS. Instead we will discard any UI design in the CS and start from scratch. And yes, that might result in some actions requiring more clicks (and less for others).

[sirherrbatka]

The problem with less-clicks is that it drifts toward a separate window containing every possible button. And that's bad.

Interface should have only needed elements (no need for tabs and search window when filters can do both) and displayed only if needed so multi-window is a natural choice here.

Less clicks is ok but not a doctrine to go with. It's better to keep things simple if possible and add customization for certain tasks (like "Dialog Editing/Quest Making").

[Zini]

Hear, hear!

[sirherrbatka]

The only problem with multi-window interface is MS windows. On KDE there are variouse features that helps to handle windows: multiple desktops (on every single DE with exception for windows), window rules (now even seperate for different activity so you can create CS activity with rules that automaticly puts all windows on correct desktop), window grouping, window shading, keyboard shortcuts to window, expo, focus under mouse setting etc.

Windows lacks this features. No problem if user has multiple screens but not sure how it will work with typical PC or laptop.

[Zini]

Easy. We make the use of multiple windows optional. The current editor prototype has it at least partially right. The only major point that needs to be fixed is that we currently have two different kind of editor windows: the "main" window type and the "detached" window type. This distinction needs to go and than we need some additional configuration options. But other than that we are good already.

[sirherrbatka]

cool

[Tarius]

Alright, yea that is good. I am glad that someone who has used it alot is the one making the decisions.