Thanks for all the hard work. Mod compatibility is one of the things that's holding me back from starting a game in OpenMW, and GCD was near the top of my list of necessary mods (although now I wonder if it would have worked properly even in vanilla Morrowind). There's still a lot of mods that I'd want that aren't yet compatible, but maybe that's for the best (in many cases, the incompatibility is due to issues with the mod, not OpenMW, and those issues would be present regardless).
Klepto wrote:I'd guess it will go as high as perhaps 20 before it tops out.
20 seems really low, even for a misc. skill. I get what you're going for, but I feel like there needs to be a compromise between immersion and usability. There will be times where a player feels like they
need a certain skill (for example, Levitation in Tel Fyr, and yes I realize you can just buy a potion). Players should be able to reach skill levels that are at least functional, if not optimal. 40 is probably a better general upper limit in misc. skills, as it still gives them access to any skill features they might need without allowing for gross powerleveling. Personally, I kind of like powerleveling, so I'd probably adjust the variables to be a bit more favorable. All this becomes a moot point, however, if neglect becomes dependent on the highest skill level reached rather than initial skill, as if they really
need a skill, they can just level it up to the point where it's still usable even with neglect.
Hold on to your hat, passionate rant incoming...
Klepto wrote:Greywander wrote:Oh, and a thought for random Luck gains..
I think that repetition should even out the changes so the results at higher levels will tend to be the same, although I'm no statistician.
I'm not sure you fully understand why I'm so averse to random stat growth, and this ties back into why I despise the vanilla leveling mechanic so much that I wouldn't play it without a mod like GCD. (Just to highlight the degree of my obsessive perfectionism, I've done playthroughs of Morrowind using the vanilla leveling system wherein I got "perfect" level ups,
every time, until my attributes (besides Luck) where maxed out at 100. And no, it wasn't fun. Level ups in Morrowind aren't randomized, but they
do require a heck of a lot of careful micromanagement to get "perfect", and that includes save scumming when you accidentally level the "wrong" skill.)
In games that feature random stat growth at a level up, I will obsessively save scum in order to get those "perfect" level ups. And it's not because I'm a dirty cheater, in fact, it's quite the opposite. I feel like the game is cheating
me when it gives me anything less than an optimal result. Intellectually I know this to be false, but emotionally I can't help but feel like the game is cruelly toying with me. I'm a perfectionist, so this sort of randomness is positively infuriating to me, and I will go to great lengths to control it as well as I am able.
In fact, this extends to any gameplay feature that is subject to save scumming, even if it doesn't feature randomness. If a game gives me one chance to hack a computer, but lets me save first and reload as many times as I want, then the whole "one chance" is a farce, and it would actually be better to just go ahead and give me unlimited chances to hack the computer.
Any game where save scumming is an issue is a poorly designed game. Either embrace the fact that players will try as many times as is necessary to get the results they want and build that into the game without the need to save scum, or else rework the design so that save scumming is no longer an issue.
On the subject of randomness, there's another issue, too. Namely that good and bad luck tends to compound itself. Sure, most of the time things will fall into the range of "average", but people don't really notice that. What they do notice is when their luck swings consistently in one direction to the point where the gameplay experience suffers. Let's take a JRPG with random stat growth as an example. If they get good luck (whether on accident or through save scumming), then the player can end up with a character that is ridiculously overpowered for their level, at which point the game can become too easy. When the player gets bad luck, it can result in one character that is significantly weaker than the others, making the game too hard. These are what the player will remember after playing your game, not all the times that were "average".
So what can you do? Well, one way is to make
every result a positive result, while still being random. To continue the JRPG example, let's say that characters earn a fixed number of stat points when they level up, but the way those stat points are distributed is random. (This assumes that each stat is equally useful for every character.) Now the power gain is always the same every level up, but the distribution of that power is still randomized. For your Luck gains, what you could do is make it so that, over the course of 20 level ups, the player always gains 15 Luck, but which levels increase your Luck and which ones don't is completely randomized.
Another way is to remove the ability to reload and try again. Autosave games like Dark Souls work this way. For a slightly different example, a JRPG with random stat growth could determine the algorithm used to calculate that growth on a new game, which means reloading always gives you the same results. Save scumming thus becomes impossible. The issue of compounding good or bad luck would still need to be addressed, though. And yes, I realize I can choose to not reload, but that's like saying I can choose not to pick up a heart container while playing Zelda. Unless you're doing a self-imposed challenge, there's no reason for it.
And here's where the lazy design of games that allow save scumming comes to light: Imagine if the game in question used an autosave feature, and you could
never reload your game. Would you eventually ragequit the game in frustration because it screwed you over without the possibility of (for lack of a better word) redemption? Autosave games
have to account for the fact that you will screw up in every way imaginable. Failing is taken for granted, and the only question is how failure should be dealt with.
A game like Super Meat Boy deals with failure by having relatively short levels and by respawing the player
immediately after death. Instead of being taunted with a Game Over screen, you jump right back into the action and you're almost never more than 30 seconds from where you died. Dark Souls deals with failure by taking away valuable (yet infinitely renewable) resources (souls and humanity) on death, but this is tempered with the possibility of regaining what you lost if you can get back to where you died without dying again. It's enough to make you fear death, but without making you ragequit when you do die. Both of these games assume you will fail, and build that into the game in a way that isn't frustrating.
So, how can you use this knowledge to redesign your Luck mechanic? Well, you have a couple different options:
I've already mentioned using a 100 point meter and randomly awarding 50 to 100 points at a level up. The problem with your 75% system is that it's binary: either you get a Luck point, or you don't. It's this coarse randomness where good and bad luck will compound itself. If instead of having 2 possible results, you have 50, then the fine grain insures that you're much more likely to remain in an average range. The guarantied minimum of 1 Luck every two levels also insures that bad luck wouldn't completely cripple the character. Furthermore, not knowing the exact number of points you earned or how many you need to get the next luck point makes save scumming impossible.
Another possibility I mentioned in this post was always giving 15 Luck over 20 levels, but randomizing which levels will give Luck. This way, the player can remain confident that they'll always have the same amount of Luck once they reach a certain level, they just can't be certain about their Luck for the interim levels. Not getting Luck at a level up is no longer a bad thing, it just means you have to wait a bit longer, and you'll be guarantied to have certain results by a certain level.
Another option is to have your Luck randomized, but entirely dependent on your current level. For example, every time you level up (or down), calculate the average Luck for that level, add a random number between +5 and -5, add in the player's initial Luck, and if that amount is greater than your current Luck (or less than for leveling down), then that becomes your new Luck. This way, the slate is wiped clean with every level up. Even if you have the worst luck possible at one level up, at the next level up you get a second chance to start over fresh and any previous bad luck becomes irrelevant. Getting screwed over by the Random Number God is now only a temporary setback, not a permanent handicap.
I should probably mention that I play single player games considerably differently than I do multiplayer games, and CRPGs differently from PnP RPGs. I'm much more willing to make concessions when there are other people involved. Also, I find it much easier and more enjoyable to roleplay in PnP RPGs than in CRPGs (where I generally find it pointless).
