Race scaling

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Hidronax
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Joined: 10 Apr 2013, 14:28

Race scaling

Post by Hidronax » 03 Oct 2016, 01:13

Morrowind uses non-uniform scaling to make for example Orcs and Imperials larger than Elves. This causes some bad deformation along the X and Y axes (which is why, if you play as an Orc, your sword's length changes while you attack).

My suggestion is to make OpenMW use a race's "weight" to scale the distance of the arms/legs from the spine (resulting in wider shoulders/hips), and to set the X and Y scale of each bone (resulting in a bulkier body).
Would it be possible to make OpenMW manage a race's weight in this way?

Note that the arms/legs should follow the movements of their respective bones, only translated to the left/right (depending on the side of the limb).
Good example
Bad example
Last edited by Hidronax on 03 Oct 2016, 15:24, edited 3 times in total.

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Zobator
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Re: Race scaling

Post by Zobator » 03 Oct 2016, 07:33

I do remember a forum-thread on the Bethsoft forums a couple of years ago. The modder made some astonishing variations in body shapes and sizes by simply altering the animation files. For example, he scaled up the arms and then shortened them back to a normal size. That way he got body-builder style arms. And fun thing was: armor and clothing would warp perfectly around the bigger arms. Unfortunately, this mod/thread has been lost to oblivion :(

Maybe this is another approach worth considering?

Hidronax
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Joined: 10 Apr 2013, 14:28

Re: Race scaling

Post by Hidronax » 03 Oct 2016, 11:01

That's more or less what I had in mind - he scaled up X, Y and Z and then scaled down Z (resulting in the arms having greater X and Y scale). I use this same trick in Skyrim and Oblivion to change the shape of the bodies. It's better than a body replacer because, as you said, clothing and armor is changed too.
If this scaling thing could be done automatically by OpenMW, basing on the race's weight, that'd be great.

However, a translation of the arms/legs is needed to make the shoulders and hips joints wider. I made some images to explain better. The bones are in blue.

Translation
Translation before rigging the arm to the bone
Translation after rigging the arm to the bone
Last edited by Hidronax on 03 Oct 2016, 12:21, edited 2 times in total.

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Zobator
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Re: Race scaling

Post by Zobator » 03 Oct 2016, 11:10

Wish I could help you further, but I can't seem to find the thread. You might try out the method I mentioned. I recall some images with beastlike argonians that looked more like a hulk with scales than a regular argonian, without the problem you're describing...

Hidronax
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Re: Race scaling

Post by Hidronax » 03 Oct 2016, 11:25

Sadly I don't know enough about programming, all I can do is to ask the developers of OpenMW to include this feature :\
Also, wouldn't changing the animations affect all races?

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MiroslavXO
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Re: Race scaling

Post by MiroslavXO » 03 Oct 2016, 11:56

You can try and change the pivot, no clue if it's gonna work but just a suggestion.

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Zobator
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Re: Race scaling

Post by Zobator » 03 Oct 2016, 11:56

Hidronax wrote:Sadly I don't know enough about programming, all I can do is to ask the developers of OpenMW to include this feature :\
Also, wouldn't changing the animations affect all races?
The concept of the mod was to diversify the physique of the NPC's. For example, he made fatter animation-sets which he then applied on people in the taverns. Various shapes and sizes of argonians, stronger-looking guards. That kind of thing.
He didn't change the default animation-set, but he made various variations on the original and the applied those to NPC's using the Construction Set.

Hidronax
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Re: Race scaling

Post by Hidronax » 03 Oct 2016, 12:17

MiroslavXO wrote:You can try and change the pivot, no clue if it's gonna work but just a suggestion.
I'm afraid changing the pivot would result in this issue...
Zobator wrote: The concept of the mod was to diversify the physique of the NPC's. For example, he made fatter animation-sets which he then applied on people in the taverns. Various shapes and sizes of argonians, stronger-looking guards. That kind of thing.
He didn't change the default animation-set, but he made various variations on the original and the applied those to NPC's using the Construction Set.
I see, so it works more or less like Morrowind Animated, only with animations that also change the shape of the NPC.
Bone scaling is the way for me, it would work way better than vanilla Morrowind's way.
There's a mod for Skyrim that lets you change the scale of each bone, and it works wonderfully.

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MiroslavXO
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Re: Race scaling

Post by MiroslavXO » 03 Oct 2016, 13:20

Send me .fbx of a scene if you have.

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Zobator
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Re: Race scaling

Post by Zobator » 03 Oct 2016, 13:23

Hidronax wrote: I see, so it works more or less like Morrowind Animated, only with animations that also change the shape of the NPC.
Bone scaling is the way for me, it would work way better than vanilla Morrowind's way.
There's a mod for Skyrim that lets you change the scale of each bone, and it works wonderfully.
Exactly. IIRC, the process was fairly simple. Open the animation file in a editor (not sure which one he used). Scale up/down a body part in the animation and then reduce the size back to normal length in the longitudinal axis. That's how he created monstrous bodybuilder-arms or really skinny arms...

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