Smart NPCs

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Faelian
Posts: 25
Joined: 11 Jul 2013, 15:37

Smart NPCs

Post by Faelian » 02 Apr 2014, 22:15

Hey guys, i came up with an idea of post 1.0 AI improvement that could be implemented in OpenMW.

I think that it is somewhot weird that while wandering armed in full daedric armor, wielding powerfull Chrysamere or whatever you are being attacked by bandits in some pitiful equipment.
So, my idea is that an NPC that spotted a player would take a look at his visible equipment and evaluate his chances in battle. If the player had far superior gear, single NPC would avoid combat at all cost. However, if he was with a friend or a few, he might still want to attack you thinking that they can beat you thanks to their advantage of being in a group.
Another reaction could be (let's take a generic bandit) stopping a player and demanding money (if their felt that chances in combat are somewhat equal). Player's refusal could then lead either to attack or leaving him alone (if they were too afraid to fight).

Obviously such a system would need to be modded, but i thought that adding AI possibilities to do such a thing would be pretty cool.

silentthief
Posts: 435
Joined: 18 Apr 2013, 01:20
Location: Currently traversing the Ascadian Isles

Re: Smart NPCs

Post by silentthief » 03 Apr 2014, 00:31

Faelian wrote:Hey guys, i came up with an idea of post 1.0 AI improvement that could be implemented in OpenMW.

I think that it is somewhot weird that while wandering armed in full daedric armor, wielding powerfull Chrysamere or whatever you are being attacked by bandits in some pitiful equipment.
So, my idea is that an NPC that spotted a player would take a look at his visible equipment and evaluate his chances in battle. If the player had far superior gear, single NPC would avoid combat at all cost. However, if he was with a friend or a few, he might still want to attack you thinking that they can beat you thanks to their advantage of being in a group.
Another reaction could be (let's take a generic bandit) stopping a player and demanding money (if their felt that chances in combat are somewhat equal). Player's refusal could then lead either to attack or leaving him alone (if they were too afraid to fight).

Obviously such a system would need to be modded, but i thought that adding AI possibilities to do such a thing would be pretty cool.
I would be REALLY surprised if AI wasn't something that would be tweaked eventually, but what you suggest can be done already in vanilla using scripts and dialogue. I guarantee that NPCs and thier actions (companions especially) are going to be common and popular mods once this gets to version 1.

If I were to suggest AI tweaks for combat, they would be:
Enemies don't automatically fight to the death (they flee if reduced to a certain percent of HP)
Along with above, if they get far enough away, they turn and use distance attacks (target spells n bows) or hit n run
Enemies engage you with weapons that fit the situation (no bow if you are whacking at them with a sword)
Enemies don't run up to cast targeted spells, they stay back. Perhaps hiding behind objects like trees (Line of sight check)
Along with above, the player can sneak up and do quadruple damage if not detected, why can't enemy NPCs?
"Smart" NPCs would run directly towards nearest guard if player attacked them, or possibly towards friends

IMHO, the character Golena Sadri was one of the smartest by her actions. She would use her magic arrows to paralyse and if that magic effect was on the player she then ran up and started whacking at them with her mace of slurring (which was kinda a silly weapon). But when the paralysis wore off she reverted to using her bow to do it again. I don't remember any other acting even remotely intellegent ;)

ST
"You like to dance close to the fire, don't you?."

Tarius
Posts: 574
Joined: 24 Oct 2011, 19:29

Re: Smart NPCs

Post by Tarius » 03 Apr 2014, 03:46

This isnt as complex as it seems, but definitly I think we would OpenMW to do it. Take for example chance evaluation, all they would have to do is basically compare your armor value etc. It could become complex the more things you add to take into account, but its certainly rather straight forward.
I am a bigger fan of tons of control rather than taking the "user-friendly" approach.
-Okulo

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Mistahtokyo
Posts: 136
Joined: 07 Sep 2013, 18:31

Re: Smart NPCs

Post by Mistahtokyo » 03 Apr 2014, 05:30

The one "smart" thing I'd really like to see is the ability for NPCs to seamlessly go through load doors, especially when fighting the player.

SquireNed
Posts: 402
Joined: 21 Dec 2013, 22:18

Re: Smart NPCs

Post by SquireNed » 03 Apr 2014, 20:17

But the only way I survived Daedra shrines back when I was a newb was going through load doors!

On a more serious note, any consideration for smarter NPCs and threat assessment requires us to consider a lot of variables; we don't have to consider them all, but we should also try to be somewhat lore friendly. For instance, can people tell the magnitude of that Fortify [offensive skill] you just cast? If they do, will they weight it relative to what the player uses? How would we determine that?

I don't think this is anything that can't be done by modders; simply get the player's armor, damage output with weapon/current spell, and any spell effects you care to consider, and you should be able to cross-reference that to the monster in question. But then, I don't know how Morrowind scripting works all that well, so don't hold me to that.

silentthief
Posts: 435
Joined: 18 Apr 2013, 01:20
Location: Currently traversing the Ascadian Isles

Re: Smart NPCs

Post by silentthief » 04 Apr 2014, 01:36

Mistahtokyo wrote:The one "smart" thing I'd really like to see is the ability for NPCs to seamlessly go through load doors, especially when fighting the player.
This. I second this. Fliggerty did "Fleeing fletchers" (Using MWSE) where the enemies will follow you thru doors. It does add to the strategy and realism, cuz simply going to the nearest load door shouldn't be a way to flee from trouble.

ST
"You like to dance close to the fire, don't you?."

ezze
Posts: 489
Joined: 21 Nov 2013, 13:20

Re: Smart NPCs

Post by ezze » 07 Apr 2014, 20:03

About intelligence, I hope OpenMW _eventually_ support NPC schedules and sleeping. It makes the world feels much more living, however it would be nice to have Daggerfall-style indication.

As mentioned also implementing fear and respect would be nice. If an obviously stronger enemy appears it is stupid to attack it blindly!

claudekennilol
Posts: 79
Joined: 01 Aug 2012, 20:48

Re: Smart NPCs

Post by claudekennilol » 10 Apr 2014, 15:49

silentthief wrote:
Mistahtokyo wrote:The one "smart" thing I'd really like to see is the ability for NPCs to seamlessly go through load doors, especially when fighting the player.
This. I second this. Fliggerty did "Fleeing fletchers" (Using MWSE) where the enemies will follow you thru doors. It does add to the strategy and realism, cuz simply going to the nearest load door shouldn't be a way to flee from trouble.

ST
Just one of the examples of something that will have to be remade since no external scripts are being supported.
ezze wrote:About intelligence, I hope OpenMW _eventually_ support NPC schedules and sleeping. It makes the world feels much more living, however it would be nice to have Daggerfall-style indication.
This can (and has) already been accomplished with mods.

Tarius
Posts: 574
Joined: 24 Oct 2011, 19:29

Re: Smart NPCs

Post by Tarius » 12 Apr 2014, 15:49

claudekennilol wrote:
silentthief wrote:
Mistahtokyo wrote:The one "smart" thing I'd really like to see is the ability for NPCs to seamlessly go through load doors, especially when fighting the player.
This. I second this. Fliggerty did "Fleeing fletchers" (Using MWSE) where the enemies will follow you thru doors. It does add to the strategy and realism, cuz simply going to the nearest load door shouldn't be a way to flee from trouble.

ST
Just one of the examples of something that will have to be remade since no external scripts are being supported.
ezze wrote:About intelligence, I hope OpenMW _eventually_ support NPC schedules and sleeping. It makes the world feels much more living, however it would be nice to have Daggerfall-style indication.
This can (and has) already been accomplished with mods.
I actually cant wait to see what fliggerty will come up with using this. Hes had done amazing thing with whats currently available and you can imagine what he could come up with given free reign.
I am a bigger fan of tons of control rather than taking the "user-friendly" approach.
-Okulo

ezze
Posts: 489
Joined: 21 Nov 2013, 13:20

Re: Smart NPCs

Post by ezze » 15 Apr 2014, 10:50

claudekennilol wrote:
ezze wrote:About intelligence, I hope OpenMW _eventually_ support NPC schedules and sleeping. It makes the world feels much more living, however it would be nice to have Daggerfall-style indication.
This can (and has) already been accomplished with mods.
I never seen a mod that allows to ask indications and get specific answers... is it available? However, I saw something about scheduling, but definitely not advanced as Oblivion.

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