Multiplayer?

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BlueDust
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Re: Multiplayer?

Post by BlueDust » 03 Apr 2014, 13:54

Lets leave the multiplayer nonsense to the modders that will use OpenMW. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. OpenMW is an engine and not a mod after all.
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SquireNed
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Re: Multiplayer?

Post by SquireNed » 03 Apr 2014, 20:13

OpenMW post-1.0.0 probably should include multiplayer at its core, rather than encouraging modders to do their own thing, but the OpenMW multiplayer should focus on simply recreating Morrowind's space between players (i.e. player 2 loads player 1's game state) and then modders can figure out what to do from there. I don't think game modes or UI elements for multiplayer should be a major concern for OpenMW, as its goal is distinct from modding in that it doesn't add new content but rather a different way to go through old content.

Tarius
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Re: Multiplayer?

Post by Tarius » 03 Apr 2014, 23:47

SquireNed wrote:OpenMW post-1.0.0 probably should include multiplayer at its core, rather than encouraging modders to do their own thing, but the OpenMW multiplayer should focus on simply recreating Morrowind's space between players (i.e. player 2 loads player 1's game state) and then modders can figure out what to do from there. I don't think game modes or UI elements for multiplayer should be a major concern for OpenMW, as its goal is distinct from modding in that it doesn't add new content but rather a different way to go through old content.
More like post 2.0 or something. Multiplayer isnt that important compared with the numerous other things like physics etc that need to be added.
I am a bigger fan of tons of control rather than taking the "user-friendly" approach.
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Jyby
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Re: Multiplayer?

Post by Jyby » 04 Apr 2014, 02:58

BlueDust wrote:Lets leave the multiplayer nonsense to the modders that will use OpenMW. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. OpenMW is an engine and not a mod after all.
But the developers should focus on writing code that is ambiguous enough to make adding multiplayer much easier.
SquireNed wrote:OpenMW post-1.0.0 probably should include multiplayer at its core, rather than encouraging modders to do their own thing, but the OpenMW multiplayer should focus on simply recreating Morrowind's space between players (i.e. player 2 loads player 1's game state) and then modders can figure out what to do from there. I don't think game modes or UI elements for multiplayer should be a major concern for OpenMW, as its goal is distinct from modding in that it doesn't add new content but rather a different way to go through old content.
From what I reviewed in the code we pause the game when a player enters dialogue and other menus. This will be a problem for Multiplayer. A lot of the game is already implemented. The releases to come will fill in the rest and refine the hell out of the current engine, which should definitely help set the framework for multiplayer.
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SquireNed
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Re: Multiplayer?

Post by SquireNed » 04 Apr 2014, 13:22

Tarius wrote:More like post 2.0 or something. Multiplayer isnt that important compared with the numerous other things like physics etc that need to be added.
I'd beg to differ. I think that in terms of high-demand features, multiplayer's pretty high on the list. It'd earn OpenMW a lot of the traffic from "Is there Morrowind with multiplayer?" people and the general people who just want to play a co-op open world game.
Jyby wrote:From what I reviewed in the code we pause the game when a player enters dialogue and other menus. This will be a problem for Multiplayer. A lot of the game is already implemented. The releases to come will fill in the rest and refine the hell out of the current engine, which should definitely help set the framework for multiplayer.
I'm not so sure that dialogue/menu pausing is a dealbreaker for multiplayer. Similarly, I'm not sure that it's horrible to have that functionality on a toggle in an options menu (potentially post 1.0.0) in order to both support multiplayer without issues and to support a more immersive experience (though one would have to stop NPC movement while they're being talked to, or perhaps make the player follow them?).

silentthief
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Re: Multiplayer?

Post by silentthief » 04 Apr 2014, 17:44

SquireNed wrote:I'm not so sure that dialogue/menu pausing is a dealbreaker for multiplayer. Similarly, I'm not sure that it's horrible to have that functionality on a toggle in an options menu (potentially post 1.0.0) in order to both support multiplayer without issues and to support a more immersive experience (though one would have to stop NPC movement while they're being talked to, or perhaps make the player follow them?).
While I'm all for giving the multiplayer option eventually, its going to be a HUGE undertaking. I cannot stress this enough. Let me explain:

the number of players is 1, and all calls for "player" have to be recoded. Who picked up a sword, the player... well if you have even 2 players then the game can't tell who picked it up. Add to that who stole something/went thru a load door/levelled up a skill/levelled up/killed Vivec/rested, who to arrest/attack/etc and you begin to see the problem. Is the game going to freeze for player 2 while player 1 rests? opens inventory? (sure hotkey it, but sleep/level up/saving all open a menu and basically pause the game). How about for 3 players? Each one has to be defined separately... 150 players? It can be done, but its not just a simple fix. now if the devs decide to move away from the single player Morrowind game (and they've already said a few times that they won't) and they do a rewrite to support multiplayer it would rock. But, I wouldn't hold my breath.

Now, I'm not trying to kill the conversation cuz I think if there ever is someone who decides to take this on it would make an idea I wanted possible: massive multiplayer medieval army battles!!!! throw in some fireball spells, siege engines, castles to defend or conquer... you get the point. But we all know version 1 is the goal and that is Morrowind-style

ST
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Jyby
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Re: Multiplayer?

Post by Jyby » 04 Apr 2014, 20:35

A tip from software engineering is that you write so you don't have to rewrite. The code does refer to the player as a single entity. But with an adapter we can add a lot of elements of multiplayer as an add-on. Granted this is no excuse to box ourselves in with very specific code for a single player. New code should be written with the potential to expand to many players or even advanced NPCs...
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Okulo
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Re: Multiplayer?

Post by Okulo » 05 Apr 2014, 10:17

silentthief wrote:I think if there ever is someone who decides to take this on it would make an idea I wanted possible: massive multiplayer medieval army battles!
In OpenMW? I think you're better off modding Mount & Blade or something.

Rumina
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Re: Multiplayer?

Post by Rumina » 05 Apr 2014, 11:55

Jyby wrote:A tip from software engineering is that you write so you don't have to rewrite. The code does refer to the player as a single entity. But with an adapter we can add a lot of elements of multiplayer as an add-on. Granted this is no excuse to box ourselves in with very specific code for a single player. New code should be written with the potential to expand to many players or even advanced NPCs...
This is ideal. But if theres one thing I've noticed on this project over the years its that its best to completely focus on the initial goal. That being the completion of an open source version that, in most respects, replicates Morrowind. While keeping things dehardcoded where feasible right now is best in the long run, going to lengths to make alterations before reaching that goal creates feature creep and complicates milestones. Without a very firm objective, even in spite of what many people would like, this project wouldnt have made it to where it is.

As far as I'm aware major de-hardcoding and alterations is a post-1.0 objective. This project is incredibly close to its initial goal and I dont think there's reason to change that now. That would severely disrupt the workflow and hamper progress as everyone has a different opinion on what the "perfect morrowind" is and how it should be designed. This thread is proof enough of that.

Well, thats all my opinion anyways.

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raevol
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Re: Multiplayer?

Post by raevol » 06 Apr 2014, 00:38

@Rumina: *applause*

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