Multiplayer?

Feedback on past, current, and future development.
User avatar
sirherrbatka
Posts: 2159
Joined: 07 Aug 2011, 17:21

Re: Multiplayer?

Post by sirherrbatka » 28 Apr 2013, 17:59

real tes players
They are listening Manowar while playing TES games?

User avatar
TorbenC
Posts: 146
Joined: 26 Aug 2012, 23:13

Re: Multiplayer?

Post by TorbenC » 28 Apr 2013, 18:50

Tinker wrote:Rather than a separate thread for multiplayer, why not a separate project so the real tes players do not have to look at it?
Oh come on, you know that was a bit overkill. I personally would never EVER want an MMO elder scrolls game (yes I know one is coming out, I will not play it) but co-op adventuring in Morrowind would be fun!

Though, it's not nearly on the top of my wishlist for OpenMW (nor is it on their priority list).

User avatar
psi29a
Posts: 4933
Joined: 29 Sep 2011, 10:13
Location: Belgium
Gitlab profile: https://gitlab.com/psi29a/
Contact:

Re: Multiplayer?

Post by psi29a » 29 Apr 2013, 10:05

Didn't Dungeons and Dragons Online (DDO) try to do that whole co-op RPG things... I remember playing and it was a disaster, people doing dungeon runs like FPS twitch games. All the magic was gone. "GGMAN, GTFO"

I'm an Ultima Online fan (circa 1996-1999), they did it right the first time around. No levels, karma system, PVP (it wasn't called that then, no concept of PVP realms, you just played with other players who may or may not kill you, so you handle that with the karma system which worked).

I do not see the appeal of multi-player Morrowind unless you plan on using OpenMW as a basis for a new game.

Fowst
Posts: 8
Joined: 21 Mar 2013, 22:58

Re: Multiplayer?

Post by Fowst » 02 Sep 2013, 00:04

Hey guys!

Haven't been here for quite some time was busy again with san andreas multiplayer servers...still I'm fascinated by the idea of morrowind multiplayer.

Many of you have stated that multiplayer wasn't "on you priorities list" or could be leading to lots of problems. I agree on that last point because there's lots of stuff you have to consider before even starting.

Well after several months I think it's ok to ask for the developers' opinion on multiplayer again.

I also wanted to give a hint to the developers about that thing called Rak-Net.
It's the base of san andreas multiplayer and vaultmp. I think there's a "hobbyist" license that's free and could help you guys implementing multiplayer possibilities for openmw.

If there is any help needed or somebody would like to join me on my quest to arrange this multiplayer modification I'll do what I can to get it started.

greetz

User avatar
TorbenC
Posts: 146
Joined: 26 Aug 2012, 23:13

Re: Multiplayer?

Post by TorbenC » 02 Sep 2013, 06:36

Fowst wrote:snip
If you want multiplayer in OpenMW, you can always make a fork, learn C++, and give it a shot. OpenMW 1.0 is supposed to (for the most part) be a replica of the Morrowind engine, adding in multiplayer may come in post 1.0 updates, but currently, as far as I know, it isn't even on the dev's minds.

User avatar
Zini
Posts: 5538
Joined: 06 Aug 2011, 15:16

Re: Multiplayer?

Post by Zini » 02 Sep 2013, 09:52

Obviously no multiplayer for 1.0. I am also not in favour of multiplayer for anything in the near future after 1.0. Going multiplayer would require substantial changes that would interfere with the improvements we should primarily focus on after 1.0.

Multiplayer might still be an option for a substantially later version (let's say 2.0), but currently none of the core developers are interested in this feature.

Note: If we talk about multiplayer, that would mean a co-op mode. Anything beyond that is totally out of question. People sometimes seems to get confused about that during this discussion.

User avatar
rainChu
Posts: 28
Joined: 20 Dec 2012, 17:04
Location: USA

Re: Multiplayer?

Post by rainChu » 04 Oct 2013, 11:33

I agree with the core developers that multiplayer should never be a priority on this project. Having code put in for multiplayer from the start will simply delay the actual goal: reverse engineering Morrowind so we have a workable base and improved mod support.

However, multiplayer is itself a mod. As said, anyone who wants to can fork the project, and that's exactly what I did! My goal is just to have fun. If I even get multiplayer to begin to work, I don't intend to follow it through. There's a lot of work to do. I am making a solid effort to make what I do get done well-implemented, and well-documented, to be a decent starting point for someone who wishes to continue.

Some facts about Vanilla Morrowind simplify things a good deal. NPCs are treated more or less exactly like players, and are controlled by an AI package. I can create AiPuppet, which is controlled by the network, and represent your partners as an NPC. Players don't need to be treated differently than that. As mentioned earlier, actual mechanics such as resting need to be reimplemented, but as far as actually getting a few players to appear on each other's screens, it looks like a fairly simple case.

OpenMW already implements everything I need to get started. I've got two instances of OpenMW talking to each other via my router using the excellent Boost.Asio library. One says "chips" and the other replies with an ACK to show it's recieved it. Today I'll do a bit of work getting the player position sent.

I've begun to implement the following console/script commands in my fork's multiplayer branch:

NetworkCreate portnumber - listen for clients (server mode)
NetworkJoin address[:port] - connect to a server
NetworkClose - Disconnect from multiplayer

The basic idea is that an .esp plugin will be able to provide an interface for the player to connect, and implement things like spawn points in the world if a player dies. I'm still working out the mechinics, but I'll learn from this thread as well. I didn't fully read what was said about the mechanics suggestions, but I'm sure it'll help!

I'll likely push to my GitHub for safe keeping, but I'm not interested in pulling any work until something more substantial is in my branch. You're welcome to provide feedback though! I'm also planning on pitching some help in on "Vanilla" OpenMW, so this branch only gets updated when there's nothing I can/want to do on the real thing.

I don't have a background in this type of programming, but I'm a game programmer in general, and that should help!

Hrawwaaaa
Posts: 8
Joined: 28 Mar 2013, 20:44

Re: Multiplayer?

Post by Hrawwaaaa » 04 Oct 2013, 21:00

seeing as there are some people who think this is a bad idea because there is more important stuff to work on, as someone who is absolutely in favor of a Morrowind-Multiplayer i just want to say this: i agree, i don't think anyone expected the OpenMW team to start working on multiplayer right now, and i think adding multiplayer should be a seperate project anyway even after 1.0 is released.

i'm sure there would be enough people interested in the development of a working multiplayer, so i don't think there is a need to incorporate it into the "main project" that is OpenMW, which would just require time and resources that could otherwise be used on more general development/improvements of the OpenMW Engine.

of course, what we all want is to see OpenMW 1.0 released some day. that is the main goal and until then - IMO - multiplayer should only be talked about as a possible addition in the (hopefully not so far) post-1.0 future ;)

User avatar
Jyby
Posts: 408
Joined: 10 Dec 2013, 04:16

Re: Multiplayer?

Post by Jyby » 10 Dec 2013, 04:48

My thoughts on Multiplayer:

I believe Multiplayer as a feature should be implemented into OpenMW at some point. It should have a client/server design. But, in no way should the Multiplayer feature change anything about Morrowind. Think of basic "Multiplayer" as inviting a guest into your game. If you invite a bad guest and he happens to grief your world, say stealing behind your back, than oh well. This type of implementation should be careful to maintain the original game. It should not make it easy or soft on players, like what I'm seeing in TESO. I like the way Minecraft handles multiplayer, but it is a bit simplistic.

So let me share my views on a few of the most important elements to the game:

First, sleep)

All players should have to rest at the same time, this will keep the game better in sync. But, unlike Minecraft, the length of time to rest will be set by the player who initiated the request to rest. As a bonus feature, their should be a use for those dang pillows! Yes, like the ones you can find in Drarayne's house where your tasked by the fighters guild to kill those rats, har har... We should be able to carry a pillow which will let us rest anywhere, a good use for an item that has no use, yet. The obvious is that sleeping has requirements, i.e. on solid ground, staying still, you own the bed, and not in town. If your a Vampire than you will be injured if you wake up in the morning, or die? If your a wolf, you will lose your powers...

Second, npc's)

npc's should be able to travel when needed. I'm thinking of the traveling salesmen in Vivec? If the npc needs to travel than it will either cast a spell or walk out the door/disappear like oblivion. This will help keep the game in sync when players remain in cells.

npc's should die forever. Unlike an MMO, Morrowid's world is not persistent. You log into the server and have a world based on the hosts quests. If you kill someone he should die and not respawn. Keep it vanilla like Morrowind. Let mods handle extra fluff.

Npcs should talk to only one player at a time. This can be applied globally, think when buying from a shop owner. But, mods can add the ability to have "public speaking" and extra fluff. New quests should be added to all players logged in. The player who initiated the quest must complete the quest, maybe?

Third, combat)

I think fighting should be based on proximity and if the creature is a player or not. Think about the time you summoned creatures and were still targeted by your opponent because you came too close And, friendly fire and all that fun stuff.


Finally, how many players)

Have the standard, max 64 or what ever the engine can handle.


I think a lot of research needs to be done as to what code/designs need to be implemented. I also think that anything the dev team creates should be with the idea that mods will come, so they should not code in MMO fluff. I believe multiplayer should be as simple as joining your buddies game and playing Morrowind, without changing Morrowind!

I have this feeling that games like TESO will ruin what Morrowind is about. I want the multiplayer to hold true to a griefers paradise as it is in the single player game. Think about Day-Z, you died? Well start again... Except you still have your game saved somewhere, I bet.

I agree that the Engine needs to be finished first, before Multiplayer is created. But, I think we users who can't code or do art or sound or what ever else, can make documents that build a sound design for the most basic Morrowind Multiplayer. A Multiplayer that will support mods and all the MMO fluff and anti-grief people like, i guess. So what, I'm basically saying is let the community make the basic use cases now, so that when we do code Multiplayer that part is one step closer to completion.

Thank you,

Jyby

P.S. Make Multiplayer a sticky!!!
Macbook Air 2013 - 1.7GHz Intel i7 - 8 GB - 512 GB SSD - Intel HD 5000
Windows 10 PC - 4GHz Intel i7 - 16 GB - 512 GB SSD - EVGA GTX 1060 SSC

User avatar
Jyby
Posts: 408
Joined: 10 Dec 2013, 04:16

Re: Multiplayer?

Post by Jyby » 01 Apr 2014, 14:53

If we ever have multiplayer this is what pvp combat might be like:

Just imagine the inventory is disabled and you have a fixed hot key bar that appears.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQJFy8aEFRg
Macbook Air 2013 - 1.7GHz Intel i7 - 8 GB - 512 GB SSD - Intel HD 5000
Windows 10 PC - 4GHz Intel i7 - 16 GB - 512 GB SSD - EVGA GTX 1060 SSC

Post Reply