Using Robert E. Howard's Conan and Kull as a basis for game

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unelsson
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Re: Using Robert E. Howard's Conan and Kull as a basis for game

Post by unelsson »

Here's one product and company claiming to have the trademarks of Robert E. Howard's Conan, including the terms Conan, Conan The Barbarian, Hyboria. This is very questionable, and exactly the issue that we discussed earlier here, but it's a concrete example of this phenomena. I can't really say much about the USA law related to this.
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psi29a
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Re: Using Robert E. Howard's Conan and Kull as a basis for game

Post by psi29a »

Yeah, i have those strips too. :)

They own the copyright of their work and anything they created in that world. By the way, if you zip over to their webpage that everyone links to:
https://conan.com/ip.shtml

It's removed, in the place you get: https://conan.com/about/ which then leads us to: https://cabinetentertainment.com/our-licenses/conan/

This then reveals:
Global Publishing
Original Conan stories and derivative works have been translated and published continuously for decades in large parts of the world.

In 2018 Cabinet launched its own imprint Perilous Worlds, which will bring back select stories currently out of print as well as creating new, exciting adventures.

Conan is untamed, unchained, and ready for action!

CONAN, CONAN THE BARBARIAN, HYBORIA and related logos, characters, names and distinctive likenesses thereof are trademarks or registered trademarks of Conan Properties International LLC. All rights reserved.
Basically... they lifted the original content, dusted it off then copyrighted their own take on things.

They then started going after people:
https://www.leagle.com/decision/infdco20180817g27
For the foregoing reasons, plaintiff CPI is awarded $3,000 in statutory damages and plaintiff JEH is awarded $18,000 in statutory damages. Sanchez is permanently enjoined from unlawfully manufacturing, selling, or publicly displaying characters that infringe on plaintiffs' copyrights and trademarks.
Not everyone is happy though, Stan Lee Media Inc. sued CPI claiming that Conan is theirs:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-e ... ter-225865
^-- Reality is, SLMI went bankrupt and Conan license was then sold off to CPI, illegally by an unauthorized agent. Judge disagreed and said it was legal, so SLMI lost and CPI won. CPI is now forcefully going after anyone who uses their IP.

In another twist... CPI even went after a non-profit organisation that was making audio recordings of Robert's public domain work.
https://boingboing.net/2009/02/25/conan ... -trol.html
'Broken Sea Audio Productions, headquartered in New Zealand, has shut down all their Robert E. Howard projects after receiving another threatening letter from the lawyers for Conan Properties International LLC (aka Paradox Entertainment).

CPI is the limited liability company that claims all licensing powers over works by Robert E. Howard worldwide.'

"CPI says that since Broken Sea's productions reach countries where these stories are not in public domain (a doubtful claim in itself) they have to remove all Conan material from their site.

Under this logic, any country could hijack public domain from the rest of the world by just claiming a copyright never expires and could also claim fair use does not exist. 'Take that etching of Charles Dickens off your website.' could be the new rule."
It seems that the crux is... there are some countries that do not have "Public Domain" like France and others where the copyright never expires, if that IP is then used there, then it shows up on CPI's radar and they will litigate.

So while Robert's work is under the Public Domain now, at least in the United States... PD doesn't exist in other places which gives CPI a way to lean on people for using anything related to Conan. Which is a pity for those wanting to make non-profit content based on Robert's work.

I guess we can scratch this.
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Re: Using Robert E. Howard's Conan and Kull as a basis for game

Post by psi29a »

The publisher acctually addressed this issue...


Uoti H May 29, 2020 11:05 am Europe/Berlin
Are you aware that Robert E. Howard died 1936, and over 70 years has passed since his death, making his work public domain (at least in most of the world)? I don't know a country where one can trademark stuff under public domain works, but just to clarify, you are really claiming the ownership of Robert E. Howard's work?

Chris B May 29, 2020 11:25 am Europe/Berlin
PUBLISHER
The Robert E Howard estate continues to maintain copyrights on terms related to Conan, and through their work ensures that the Conan books remain in publication using their original authentic texts, not later texts edited by different authors which has happened in the past. They also work to promote his stories, and the world of Conan, to get it in front of more people and help more people discover the books. This means people continue to be able to get access to the works of REH, and that related merchandise like these games, films, clothing etc is maintained at a high level of quality.
Uoti H May 29, 2020 1:28 pm Europe/Berlin
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the *copyright* of Robert E Howard's work has expired, making the original works Public Domain. What you are referring to is the *trademark* of terms related to Conan? I have no personal interest in testing this legally, but I have worries of public domain works in general being trademarked (essentially belonging to the humankind). If you are only referring that the copyright covers latter work (not public domain work), it's quite a different case indeed, copyrights are useful, but if you are referring that trademark covers also original Robert E. Howards work, how is that different from registering a trademark "Shakespeare" or "Plato" and using that to commercialize those, which obviously are now considered Public Domain?
Chris B May 29, 2020 1:44 pm Europe/Berlin
PUBLISHER
It's trademark and copyright on terms such as names and places and others related to the books, not the books themselves.
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Re: Using Robert E. Howard's Conan and Kull as a basis for game

Post by psi29a »

So basically... take the original works, rename the people and places.
unelsson
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Re: Using Robert E. Howard's Conan and Kull as a basis for game

Post by unelsson »

psi29a wrote: 29 May 2020, 17:36 So basically... take the original works, rename the people and places.
Yeeeah, that is Mongoose's answer (RPG company), it's not a binding legal answer by the CPI, which seems to be the company doing all the dirty work here. Is that the same as Paradox btw, didn't know that?

The case against Sanchez was in "United States District Court, E.D. New York.", it's very odd if a Spanish person can be sued in the US and it has any grounds. International extractions might be done in some cases, but this isn't probably that kind of case? But regardless, if these kinds of cases stand in countries like USA/Spain/France, it's quite difficult to go using that IP, even if it's public domain in most of the world.
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Re: Using Robert E. Howard's Conan and Kull as a basis for game

Post by psi29a »

Yeah, it was shit. Basically the guy in Spain didn't show up to court in the USA and as a result, it was a default judgement against the guy since no one was there to defend themselves. Since the ruling happened in the USA, it is only enforceable in the USA. They can't stop him from doing anything outside the USA however and if the guy is smart, he'll not set up shop in the USA otherwise he would have to pay what the court ordered. It was just a show of force and got lucky that no one showed up.
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