List of fundamental gameplay changes?

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OldGamer
Posts: 7
Joined: 17 May 2021, 22:27

List of fundamental gameplay changes?

Post by OldGamer »

tl;dr - is there a list of differences between the original patched Morrowind gameplay and OpenMW gameplay? I had only played a few hours before I found one - the change to how Birthsigns effect Attributes (e.g. The Lady). This change fundamentally impacts my choices during character creation, which impacts the RPG experience.

I started another thread (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7471) because I thought I might have found a bug. Instead I found a known and intentional significant change to the original Morrowind gameplay, namely how stat increases are handled when selecting The Lady as my character's birthsign. I don't want to get into that change (it's covered here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5081). Rather, I'm curious if there are other changes that fundamentally change the role playing and gameplay experience before I run into something like the birthsign change. For me, the change to the behavior of that birthsign means I need to re-start my game, change birth sign, change favored attributes, change Major/Minor skills, and change how I approach the first 5-10 levels from how I would have done so with the original game. Those things are fundamental to role playing. Before I put all that work in, are there other changes that I should be aware of? I'm really gunshy about continuing with OpenMW because if something so core to the original game as Birthsign mechanics was changed I'm worried that I'm going to find that other things are changed. For instance, are the guild relationships changed? Guild progression? Leveling approaches? Main quests? Side quests?
The thing that appealed to me about OpenMW was that I though it was intended to update the engine but leave the basic game in place, but now that I know that's not true I'm thinking I should just uninstall it to return to the original developer's intent. But if I can find a list of those fundamental gameplay changes then maybe I can find workarounds for them so I can avoid those changes. A list would give me a heads up before I screw up my character early in the game and have to start over again.
Chris
Posts: 1625
Joined: 04 Sep 2011, 08:33

Re: List of fundamental gameplay changes?

Post by Chris »

OldGamer wrote: 18 May 2021, 21:19 Rather, I'm curious if there are other changes that fundamentally change the role playing and gameplay experience before I run into something like the birthsign change.
There is nothing that fundamentally changes the role playing or gameplay experience. Here is a list of bugs that can effect gameplay (many of which are already fixed), but beyond that it's fundamentally the same. There may be subtle implementation differences that have gone undetected, or only a few people have noticed, though this doesn't mean they can't or won't be fixed; OpenMW is FOSS, anyone can work on and contribute fixes for something that's a problem, so long as its a clean fix and worthwhile to have built-in. Sometimes a fix can be better left as a mod when it would have a negative impact on the engine to have built-in, but these things are genuinely subtle and have good reason for being the way they are for the engine's future.
OldGamer wrote: 18 May 2021, 21:19 For me, the change to the behavior of that birthsign means I need to re-start my game, change birth sign, change favored attributes, change Major/Minor skills, and change how I approach the first 5-10 levels from how I would have done so with the original game. Those things are fundamental to role playing. Before I put all that work in, are there other changes that I should be aware of? I'm really gunshy about continuing with OpenMW because if something so core to the original game as Birthsign mechanics was changed I'm worried that I'm going to find that other things are changed. For instance, are the guild relationships changed? Guild progression? Leveling approaches? Main quests? Side quests?
That sounds quite hyperbolic. It's one thing to say a subtle implementation difference in how Birthsigns work impacts your metagame in an undesirable way (which there is a mod to address, so you can still get what you want), but another to say it's "fundamental to role playing". Personally, when 99% of players wouldn't even notice a difference if it wasn't pointed out, and even when it is most have a hard time grasping what it actually means for gameplay, I wouldn't consider that "fundamental".

But still, you can take a look through this list of "vanilla gameplay" mods. The only thing there that restores an OpenMW change is the Vanilla Birthsigns mod; all the others are "vanilla friendly" gameplay improvements. So there really isn't anything to worry about.
OldGamer
Posts: 7
Joined: 17 May 2021, 22:27

Re: List of fundamental gameplay changes?

Post by OldGamer »

OldGamer wrote: 18 May 2021, 21:19 For me, the change to the behavior of that birthsign means I need to re-start my game, change birth sign, change favored attributes, change Major/Minor skills, and change how I approach the first 5-10 levels from how I would have done so with the original game. Those things are fundamental to role playing. Before I put all that work in, are there other changes that I should be aware of? I'm really gunshy about continuing with OpenMW because if something so core to the original game as Birthsign mechanics was changed I'm worried that I'm going to find that other things are changed. For instance, are the guild relationships changed? Guild progression? Leveling approaches? Main quests? Side quests?
That sounds quite hyperbolic. It's one thing to say a subtle implementation difference in how Birthsigns work impacts your metagame in an undesirable way (which there is a mod to address, so you can still get what you want), but another to say it's "fundamental to role playing". Personally, when 99% of players wouldn't even notice a difference if it wasn't pointed out, and even when it is most have a hard time grasping what it actually means for gameplay, I wouldn't consider that "fundamental".

But still, you can take a look through this list of "vanilla gameplay" mods. The only thing there that restores an OpenMW change is the Vanilla Birthsigns mod; all the others are "vanilla friendly" gameplay improvements. So there really isn't anything to worry about.
[/quote]

Thank you Chris. I can explain why I see it as a fundamental change. I was trying to play a Lawful Good character who uses persuasion whenever possible. He has zero ability to use magic, and won't use any spells or take any magic training. When he can't talk his way out of something, he uses heavy armor and blunt weapons with high health and strength. In order to play this character the way I wanted to, I need to level Personality and Speechcraft early in the game. Because of this change, I can't train Speechcraft and I can't level him without either training Illusion (to get Personality up) or grinding by using Persuasion on every character in Balmora to get his Speechcraft up since I can't train him (due to the change). That's why I say it's fundamental to my role playing approach for this character. I really cannot move forward with this character given my RPG approach for him and this change to the game.

I am glad I can re-start this character with a mod to restore the original behavior, so this single instance isn't that big a deal. My concern comes in because I might run into a similar change after I have 100 hours in instead of 5. That's why I want to find that list. Even if you don't see this is a big change it is forcing me to start over with a difference character and RPG approach or a mod added, what other changes are of a similar magnitude? I'm ok wasting 5 hours on one character, but if there are other seemingly minor changes lying in wait to break another character further down the road - that's what concerns me.

I really do appreciate the work that's gone into this. Arena was my favorite game until Daggerfall, and Morrowind was my favorite after Daggerfall.
OldGamer
Posts: 7
Joined: 17 May 2021, 22:27

Re: List of fundamental gameplay changes?

Post by OldGamer »

Chris wrote: 18 May 2021, 23:49 That sounds quite hyperbolic. It's one thing to say a subtle implementation difference in how Birthsigns work impacts your metagame in an undesirable way (which there is a mod to address, so you can still get what you want), but another to say it's "fundamental to role playing". Personally, when 99% of players wouldn't even notice a difference if it wasn't pointed out, and even when it is most have a hard time grasping what it actually means for gameplay, I wouldn't consider that "fundamental".
Oh, one other thing. When I said, "fundamental to role playing", I meant that the changes I am going to make to:
"change birth sign, change favored attributes, change Major/Minor skills, and change how I approach the first 5-10 levels from how I would have done so with the original game."

Those things are fundamental to role playing - if I change all those things about my character, then I'm playing a different role, therefore it fundamentally changes my role playing. I did not mean the change to Birthsigns itself is fundamental - I'm sorry I wasn't clear.
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Mantar
Posts: 38
Joined: 17 Jul 2020, 23:32

Re: List of fundamental gameplay changes?

Post by Mantar »

OldGamer wrote: 18 May 2021, 21:19 I had only played a few hours before I found one - the change to how Birthsigns effect Attributes (e.g. The Lady).
...
I started another thread (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7471) because I thought I might have found a bug. Instead I found a known and intentional significant change to the original Morrowind gameplay, namely how stat increases are handled when selecting The Lady as my character's birthsign.
If it's intentional, then why is it a confirmed 1.0 blocker bug?
https://gitlab.com/OpenMW/openmw/-/issues/1751
It's a bit tricky to fix and there's nobody free to take it on right now, but it will be fixed before OpenMW can be bumped to v1.0.
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