Guy on youtube starts a let's play with OpenMW...

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Chris
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Re: Guy on youtube starts a let's play with OpenMW...

Post by Chris » 13 Sep 2016, 20:02

Atahualpa wrote:This is pretty much the opinion I have of Oblivion and -- although I've never really played it myself -- Skyrim: Both are good games, and they definitely do some things better than Morrowind, but in the end they don't allow me to roleplay as much as Morrowind (or even Daggerfall) did and are generally less complex. That said, there are mods to compensate for this but he talks about the vanilla games.
Still, you can't say it's not an RPG. Any definition that excludes Oblivion or Skyrim would also exclude games are considered RPGs. And also, different people role-play differently (for instance, I have an easier and more fun time role-playing in Daggerfall, Oblivion, and Skyrim, compared to Morrowind, but that certainly doesn't mean I think Morrowind isn't an RPG). I wouldn't say they're less complex either, just focusing on different aspects of gameplay.

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Atahualpa
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Re: Guy on youtube starts a let's play with OpenMW...

Post by Atahualpa » 13 Sep 2016, 20:14

Well, I understand your point of view but I don't share it. We just have different opinions on the same matter -- and that's perfectly valid. :)

Zaric tends to overemphasise his opinion in order to see the "typical" Skyrim troll turn mad, to make others get out of their shell and join the discussion, and, last but definitely not least, to enjoy himself. Don't let him provoke you, fight back. He wants that.
Last edited by Atahualpa on 13 Sep 2016, 21:03, edited 1 time in total.

Biboran
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Re: Guy on youtube starts a let's play with OpenMW...

Post by Biboran » 13 Sep 2016, 20:53

For me every next bethesda game are less RPG. Skyrim and Fallout 4 not RPG for me - shooters like STALKER and Xenus2 had more RPG elements than this. But this is my opinion. :)

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PeterBitt
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Re: Guy on youtube starts a let's play with OpenMW...

Post by PeterBitt » 14 Sep 2016, 09:23

Chris wrote:I can't help but find him annoyingly pompous. Between the way he presents himself and talks, I have trouble watching him for very long. ...
Thats the reason why I watch him lol, 'pompous' is spot on! I dont care what he says, I only care for his suits, goblets and his funny facial expressions and gesturing.
In general I think that people should stop seing Youtubers as some kind of authority and stop taking them to serious. He and all the others are just some guys who happen to have a webcam and the urge to present themselves on the web.

Also Skyrim really is a good game and its really heavily dumbed down and streamlined when compared to its predecessors. So I'd say its not a good TES RPG for the Morrowind fan, but its a good action adventure on itself. I dont see a contradiction here.

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psi29a
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Re: Guy on youtube starts a let's play with OpenMW...

Post by psi29a » 14 Sep 2016, 09:30

PeterBitt wrote:Also Skyrim really is a good game and its really heavily dumbed down and streamlined when compared to its predecessors. So I'd say its not a good TES RPG for the Morrowind fan, but its a good action adventure on itself. I dont see a contradiction here.
Put sharp things through soft things that scream and bleed. [check]
Took arrow to the knee. [check]

Chris
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Re: Guy on youtube starts a let's play with OpenMW...

Post by Chris » 14 Sep 2016, 19:50

PeterBitt wrote:Also Skyrim really is a good game and its really heavily dumbed down and streamlined when compared to its predecessors. So I'd say its not a good TES RPG for the Morrowind fan, but its a good action adventure on itself. I dont see a contradiction here.
What do you mean by "dumbed down"? Can you give specific examples, and explain why said examples are "dumbed down"? The vast majority of people who use the term simply mean it as an insult, "I think that change is dumb, so it's dumbed down". And very often, what people complain about being "dumbed down" were changes in direct response to complaints players had with Morrowind (or to avoid other problems that people would complain more about).

Secondly, "not a good TES RPG for the Morrowind fan"... A) you're changing the statement, which was "not an RPG", and B) Morrowind isn't the end-all be-all of TES RPGs. There were ones before it, and ones after it. And when you get down to it, in many ways Morrowind is the black sheep of TES RPGs (I'd say Oblivion is closer to Daggerfall than Morrowind was, for example, and Skyrim tries to sit somewhere between Oblivion and Morrowind). It's also the one that started the development direction that Oblivion and Skyrim are simply continuing. Don't forget that TES isn't a purebred RPG series -- since it's start with Arena, it's been explicitly designed as Action RPGs, drawing on the likes of Ultima Underworld for inspiration (I also saw a video that gave another name to the type of games the TES series is; Immersive Sim).

Just because every design decision doesn't try to maximize the RPG elements doesn't mean it's not still a good TES RPG.

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DestinedToDie
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Re: Guy on youtube starts a let's play with OpenMW...

Post by DestinedToDie » 14 Sep 2016, 20:26

Chris wrote:What do you mean by "dumbed down"? Can you give specific examples, and explain why said examples are "dumbed down"?
Racial differences are minimized. There's almost no difference between playing a Nord vs playing an Argonian. All stats were deleted, you only have health, mana and stamina. Classes are abolished. Level anything and you're fine. Birthsigns are no longer an important part of your character when you construct it. You can now change your birthsign as many times as you want, and their power is only a minor factor. The gist of this is that pretty much none of your character creation choices matter.

You cannot increase runspeed, jump. Many spell effects were deleted. We got a few new ones (and many new dragon shouts), but they were very stiff in nature and you could not spellmake mixed new ones ingame. You are led by a quest marker, instead of navigating by your own map-reading skills and directional sense.

Biboran
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Re: Guy on youtube starts a let's play with OpenMW...

Post by Biboran » 14 Sep 2016, 23:37

DestinedToDie wrote:
Chris wrote:What do you mean by "dumbed down"? Can you give specific examples, and explain why said examples are "dumbed down"?
Racial differences are minimized. There's almost no difference between playing a Nord vs playing an Argonian. All stats were deleted, you only have health, mana and stamina. Classes are abolished. Level anything and you're fine. Birthsigns are no longer an important part of your character when you construct it. You can now change your birthsign as many times as you want, and their power is only a minor factor. The gist of this is that pretty much none of your character creation choices matter.

You cannot increase runspeed, jump. Many spell effects were deleted. We got a few new ones (and many new dragon shouts), but they were very stiff in nature and you could not spellmake mixed new ones ingame. You are led by a quest marker, instead of navigating by your own map-reading skills and directional sense.
And you don't have spellmaking. Cities are smaller, and map is more blank, dungeons are one corridor with pretty stupid puzzles. Dialogs are empty. etc. etc. And lore and province are very bad. chek out SHoTN of you want to see how real skyrim should look like

Chris
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Re: Guy on youtube starts a let's play with OpenMW...

Post by Chris » 15 Sep 2016, 00:21

DestinedToDie wrote:Racial differences are minimized. There's almost no difference between playing a Nord vs playing an Argonian. All stats were deleted, you only have health, mana and stamina. Classes are abolished. Level anything and you're fine. Birthsigns are no longer an important part of your character when you construct it. You can now change your birthsign as many times as you want, and their power is only a minor factor. The gist of this is that pretty much none of your character creation choices matter.
All stats weren't deleted. You still have 18 skills, 3 attributes, and a bunch of perks. Besides, given how bad the old Attributes system was, it was long over due to be cut out. Classes never fit properly into the TES style of improve-by-doing. Personally, I like how your character creation choices don't matter so much, because it moves character building into the game, rather than before it (I really dislike having to restart after some time because I made choices at character creation that had an inadvertent effect in the gameplay that just isn't working as I wanted; or that my starting choices all but lock me into a single progression path with little choice to realistically deviate from it, for instance if some events occur that would make sense for the character to alter their path). It's fine if you don't like that approach, but you not liking it doesn't mean it's "dumbed down".
You are led by a quest marker, instead of navigating by your own map-reading skills and directional sense.
Due to complaints from Morrowind players that it was hard to find things from the given directions (particularly in the Ashland regions). To say nothing of the improved AI making NPCs non-stationary (sometimes even traveling between cities), so you can't just tell the player where such an NPC is because they may not actually be there.

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AnyOldName3
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Re: Guy on youtube starts a let's play with OpenMW...

Post by AnyOldName3 » 15 Sep 2016, 00:25

While the dungeons and associated puzzles are more simplistic and linear than earlier games, the puzzles aren't there to be a challenge to the play, but instead a barrier that a draugr cannot pass through, as they're too thick to notice that the pillars can rotate to match the engravings etc.
AnyOldName3, Master of Shadows

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