What is exactly the point of this project?

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CMAugust
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Joined: 10 Jan 2016, 00:13

Re: What is exactly the point of this project?

Post by CMAugust »

Welcome to OpenMW forums. Please read the FAQ on the OpenMW main website as your question is frequently asked. But to sum up, OpenMW is an example of completely legal clean-room reverse engineering and shares no code with the NetImmerse engine at all. Furthermore, it is solely an open-source game engine and contains no intellectual property of Bethesda. It is simply geared to run Morrowind content really, really well, and provide new ways for players and content creators alike to enjoy it - and, if they choose, to modernise it to their heart's content.
tigersong
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Joined: 18 May 2021, 16:05

Re: What is exactly the point of this project?

Post by tigersong »

Clearly, you aren't a fan. :) Morrowind is great because it doesn't have "modern" mechanics like quest markers. Instead, you're allowed to discover an alien world inch by inch, without having things popping up to say, "Look at me, I'm interesting!"

I also love the solitude that this game affords me. If I don't feel sociable, I can just head out into the wilderness.

Skyrim is a decent action game, but it feels shallow to me. It's clearly a cash grab, not a labor of love like Morrowind. As if that weren't obvious enough, the powers that be recently sold their souls to Molag Bal, also known as Microsoft.
Chris
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Joined: 04 Sep 2011, 08:33

Re: What is exactly the point of this project?

Post by Chris »

tigersong wrote: 18 May 2021, 16:44 Clearly, you aren't a fan. :) Morrowind is great because it doesn't have "modern" mechanics like quest markers.
That's rather rude. You can be a fan of Morrowind, but find various mechanics archaic and outdated. I'm a fan of Morrowind, but do think it could do with quest markers*, better player guidance**, and other modern QOL changes. Could do with a better dialog system, too. But of course, one of the most promising things of OpenMW is that it will be able to implement updated mechanics and fix archaic design decisions, either in-engine or with expanded mod capabilities.

* I wouldn't want Oblivion-esque markers, though, where it always pointed to the exact spot you needed to go. I'd prefer the markers to simply indicate what your character would know/was told about where to go. But different people will have different opinions.

** I find Morrowind's landscape pretty dull, and "exploration" and "discovery" ends up feeling like a blind game of hide and seek in a barren world. Interesting things are tucked away just out of sight so you can't see them until you're right on top of it (partly necessitated by the relatively small map, needing to make areas seem more separated than they really are). Mods that improve the visuals, to make the landscape more pleasing to look at, and things like extended view distance and landmasses designed with it in mind, help with this, though true exploration on Vvardenfell still tends to feel not as rewarding as it could. If I don't already know where to go, either from being told or from past experience, it's like I'm stumbling around blind.
tigersong wrote: 18 May 2021, 16:44 Instead, you're allowed to discover an alien world inch by inch, without having things popping up to say, "Look at me, I'm interesting!"
I like being able to see things in the distance that grab my interest, and make me want to find my way there when I don't have any other reason to other than it looks interesting. I'd rather see something of interest and go there, than to have no clear goal and only trip over things on accident that I couldn't see because of a conspicuously placed rock or hill.
tigersong wrote: 18 May 2021, 16:44 Skyrim is a decent action game, but it feels shallow to me. It's clearly a cash grab, not a labor of love like Morrowind. As if that weren't obvious enough, the powers that be recently sold their souls to Molag Bal, also known as Microsoft.
Funny enough, Morrowind could be considered their first step down that rabbit hole. After Battlespire and Redguard, Bethesda was approached by Microsoft to make "the killer RPG" for their new XBox console, their first foray into the console wars against Nintendo, Sony, and Sega. You can bet Morrowind was at least partly designed with the XBox's capabilities in mind. Morrowind on XBox was the first time Bethesda reached such a wide audience, and ever since then, it's been nothing but praise for Microsoft and consoles; whatever Microsoft wanted is what Bethesda considered good (to the point where they would even lie and say Skyrim was always intended for the XBox360, despite everything pointing to the contrary, because Microsoft was still pushing that console generation; and they even went as far as to say later on they regretted, of all things, using OpenGL in Redguard rather than being an early adopter or Microsoft's Direct3D API). I'm more surprised the buyout didn't happen sooner, honestly.

Regarding Skyrim being a "cash grab" rather than a labor of love is also something I don't exactly agree with. A number of the people who worked in fairly high positions on Skyrim were there with if not before Morrowind too (Todd, obviously; Bruce Nesmith, who's been involved with RPGs since before Arena was a thought in someone's head; Kurt Kuhlmann, M.K.'s long-time protege who used a lot of his work; Steve Meister; Ashley Cheng; etc). Skyrim is IMHO the plain result of the change in design philosophy that started with Morrowind, which itself resulted from a change in leadership after Daggerfall and Battlespire (when Julian LeFay and Ted Peterson stepped down from their lead roles). If you look at Morrowind's expansions, there are clear design precursors to how Oblivion turned out, and Oblivion's expansions also have clear precursors to how Fallout 3 turned out, etc. You can not like what happened post-Morrowind, but from what I can see there wasn't a significant philosophical change after Morrowind resulting in the later games; it's the logical result of what led to Morrowind itself. I mean, there's no loss of ambition here; Oblivion's Radiant AI was very ambitious, as was Skyrim's Radiant Story and Quests... so much so, it was more than they could chew, being unable to stablize the systems and having to scale them back in late stages of development which made them feel lackluster, and subsequently become underappreciated attempts at making something grand.

To be clear, Bethesda has always been a for-profit company. They've always looked to make money and reach a wider audience. But you can love what you do and do what you think works best in light of that goal. I don't think Morrowind and Skyrim are very different there.
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Greendogo
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Re: What is exactly the point of this project?

Post by Greendogo »

GlanePito wrote: 18 May 2021, 03:10 While i have very basic knowledge about programming from my understanding if the game use a new engine it means it's actually a remake right? So why do all of this super hard work just for coping a super old game that other than nostalgia there is no much point of playing it and not just creating a new RPG with modern mechanics? Also if Bethesda eventually find out about this project they will take this whole thing down right? So why even risk it?
The point of the project is that it's an open source engine reimplentation. It is the game, it's the skeleton that runs the game. The game must also be purchased and owned by the player and installed.
tigersong
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Joined: 18 May 2021, 16:05

Re: What is exactly the point of this project?

Post by tigersong »

Thanks, Chris. I'll admit, I didn't stop to think before posting.

You're right: Bethesda is and has always been a for-profit company. And if they'd had the technology back in the day, perhaps Morrowind would resemble an action game in terms of its combat system.

I still stand by what I said about solitude. Nothing is more irksome to me than to be out in the wilds of Skyrim and, suddenly, be forced into another round of "the thief and the hunter". (In other words, I'm not a fan of radiant AI.)

Perhaps it's inevitable that, as technology improves, in-game combat gets faster and more frequent. But I'd like the option to tone it down in Skryim, and especially in ESO. I like to take in the scenery; nothing spoils that like a troop of bandits or a pack of wolves ambushing me.

Recently I've gotten into Final Fantasy XI, also from 2002. It's nice that most minor foes don't attack unless provoked.

You're right about distant landmarks. True, Morrowind has its faults, and having such a limited view is possibly one of them.

One thing I'll admit is an improvement is having companion characters. I like Vilja, I even feel like the big names could learn much about characterization from her.

I'm tired, so I'll wrap this up by saying I look forward to the future of OpenMW. Hopefully, one day it will contend with the likes of Unity and Unreal while remaining true to its open-source roots.
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Mantar
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Re: What is exactly the point of this project?

Post by Mantar »

tigersong wrote: 19 May 2021, 02:48 And if they'd had the technology back in the day, perhaps Morrowind would resemble an action game in terms of its combat system.
I think that's highly unlikely, they were intentionally recreating tabletop RPG mechanics.
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lysol
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Re: What is exactly the point of this project?

Post by lysol »

The user never replied and now has spam links in signature. Also, the message is from a reddit post from six months ago. Clever bot.

I hate bots. Thread locked, first post removed and spambot banned.
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