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lgromanowski
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Post by lgromanowski » 22 Aug 2011, 19:51

raevol wrote: Hey guys, our wiki being down is sort of a huge issue. I am considering, and please note that I am only considering this with no solid plans about anything, offering to take over administering our website.

But the last time I was a web admin was a few years ago, and the most complex site I ran was a guild website for Guild Wars. I did some fun stuff with it, integrating it with phpbb and so forth, but I think a real OpenMW website would take more than that. I've been kicking around learning at CMS such as Joomla, or a web architecture such as Django, and I think this would be a neat project to work on with that.

But what do you guys thing about those things? Does anyone have any experience with Joomla or Django or other CMS/Web Architectures? Any recommendations? Our website would want a wiki, forum, and news system. Other modules like an image gallery or git integration would be fun too.

What do you guys think? And again, this is just something I am pondering, I am not yet offering to do this or to bump anyone out of their current roles or anything.
lgro wrote:
raevol wrote:Does anyone have any experience with Joomla or Django or other CMS/Web Architectures? Any recommendations? Our website would want a wiki, forum, and news system.
I have experience with MediaWiki, phpBB, Wordpress, ModX CMS and Redmine (Redmine is a bug tracker integrated with wiki, repository browsing
and other cool things). As I mentioned in different post I could make main website too.

I think a good idea for OpenMW website would be:
main site - wordpress (news, short info about the project, link to forum, link to wiki, etc.), wiki (MediaWiki) for all information related to coding, openmw internals, etc. and for forum phpbb or smf.
raevol wrote: Yea, if we stick with phpbb we don't have to lose everything on here, which would be nice. :|
sir_herrbatka wrote: I guess that our admin is gone so we should think about next move.

The problem is wiki. Although cached by google (maybe we could use some kind of wget script to download what we can â?? somebody know if it's possible?) but not completly. Getting backup copy into our hands would help, that's for sure. But still: this probabbly won't happen.

IMHO we should do what we can instead of waiting even more.
Rhys wrote: I don't know what the story is for ownership/access of server/domain, but obviously you'll need access there either to salvage the wiki or upload the new site.
I'm guessing Lordrea is primarily the guy, so I think it's very likely he'll be back.
lgro wrote:
sir_herrbatka wrote:I guess that our admin is gone so we should think about next move.

The problem is wiki. Although cached by google (maybe we could use some kind of wget script to download what we can â?? somebody know if it's possible?) but not completly.
It could be possible to harvest data from mirrors (if I find some time at weekend I will try to write some python script to get this data).
Zini wrote: If you guys can make it work, that would be great With our web admin AWOL again, I am starting to get sceptical about the long-term future of our current hosting solution.

For a new site, I suggest making an exact copy from the old one. The combination of wiki/forum worked well (while it still was working).
We don't really need anything else, but we could try wordpress for sir_herrbatka's weekly update, if you guys want.

As far the tracker, I kinda got attached to Mantis. I heard good things about Redmine, but before such a move we should make sure, that the data from our current tracker can be imported and that all important features from Mantis are available.

We would need to get hold of Lordrea for the domain anyway, so there is little point in regenerating stuff from google caches or something.
Zini wrote: To elaborate on my previous statement. I guess if we absolutely can't get hold of Lordrea, we could get us a new domain and add a pinned thread to each forum section, that points to it. Can't think of anything even remotely as good as openmw.com, though.
lgro wrote:
Zini wrote:To elaborate on my previous statement. I guess if we absolutely can't get hold of Lordrea, we could get us a new domain and add a pinned thread to each forum section, that points to it. Can't think of anything even remotely as good as openmw.com, though.
openmw.org or openmw.net would be also good.
lgro wrote:
Zini wrote:As far the tracker, I kinda got attached to Mantis. I heard good things about Redmine, but before such a move we should make sure, that the data from our current tracker can be imported and that all important features from Mantis are available.
I think most of Mantis data could be migrated into Redmine (link to migration procedure, another migration procedure).
Zini wrote: Right. openmw.org sounds good. Actually, it is more appropriate than openmw.com.
I think most of Mantis data could be migrated into Redmine (link to migration procedure, another migration procedure).
Yeah, that looks good.
raevol wrote: I'd like to take this time to recommend Trac for bug tracking again. ;) It also comes with a wiki included, saving us one install. I've used it in open source and professional projects, and it is rock solid. Just my two cents.

EDIT: I'd also be More thank Happy to setup/administrate a Trac if that's what it takes to get us using it. You can also import from Mantis into Trac: http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/TracImport#Mantis
raevol wrote: Ok, I'm taking a closer look at Redmine and it doesn't look bad. Looks like it comes with a wiki as well? I still am inclined to recommend Trac just because I've used it, but it looks like Redmine is very powerful too.
jhooks1 wrote: Making openmw.org sounds like a good idea.
lgro wrote: One big feature of Redmine - installation time is really fast (even with editing configuration files) than Trac.
raevol wrote: I'd be more concerned with usability and power post-install than install time, but as I said, Redmine looks fine enough, hehe. :geek:
Zini wrote: Looks like we have a winner: Redmine. I am fine with that.
Hircine wrote: I think we should also think of having a public wiki (not hosted by us)
i suggested wikia, but was shot down by Zini for purely aesthetics.
Its not about how it looks. its about getting information to the people.

I have experience installing Phpbb3, Mediawiki and joomla.

If you need my help let me know. If paid hosting is needed, Arvixe.com is cheap. $4 US a month. we should also set it up so there are multiple people with access to the backend. (cpanel, not necessarily billing). so if one person is on holidays or is AWOL, we can fix issues.

Joomla is a good system, its bulky, but is really extensible. A gallery is not a problem. openmw.org sounds great!

Joomla/Mediawiki/Redmine + wikia for backup.
Zini wrote:
i suggested wikia, but was shot down by Zini for purely aesthetics.
Actually, usability. Wikis with fixed size layout -> just no! Either having to scroll because the fixed size is too big or having huge empty borders because the fixed size is too small for the browser window.

Edit: Also, they guys running Wikia seem to be kinda arsehole (not of Facebook proportions, but definitely not someone you went to entrust your content to). A wiki befriended with the Redemption project had been moving off Wikia a while ago. That did not went friendly.
Hircine wrote: ok, fair enough.

surely there is another like wikia that we can put our content on.

Also, although Zini isn't a web developer/administrator, he should get access to the same functions as the administrator(s). So he can still hand out access if other people go AWOL too.

also i inquired to Flexihosting about free NPO web hosting.

http://www.flexihostings.net.au/nonprof ... sting.html
Hello Flexihosting,

I am part of a group who are re-implementing the engine for the video game Morrowind. All of this work is purely non-profit. Recently our web-hosting administrator went AWOL and we require web-space to host the various tools such as phpbb3 (forums), Redmine (bug tracking) and mediawiki for our project.

we are wondering if we would be eligible for your free hosting package for NPO's.

we are fine with paying for a new domain.

cheers,
Peter.
if they accept us, we only have to buy the .org domain, saving a bit of money.
Zini wrote: From the small print it seems we do not match the requirements. I might be wrong about this, but didn't lgro offer us webhosting? We don't need anything expensive here anyway, since downloads and the git repository are hosted off-site anyway.
Also, although Zini isn't a web developer/administrator, he should get access to the same functions as the administrator(s). So he can still hand out access if other people go AWOL too.
Not really needed. But I strongly suggest that we have at least two admins from now on. That should take care of situations like the one we currently have.
lgro wrote:
Zini wrote:I might be wrong about this, but didn't lgro offer us webhosting?
Thats right, but I would like you to be the owner and administrator of new domain (openmw.org) so in case of any unexpected accidents there will be no problem to switch (change dns or www server ip) between webhosting (mine to other, etc.).
raevol wrote:
Hircine wrote:If you need my help let me know. If paid hosting is needed, Arvixe.com is cheap. $4 US a month.
Heehee, I went to high school with and am friends with the guy who runs Arvixe.com. :D
Hircine wrote:
raevol wrote:
Hircine wrote:If you need my help let me know. If paid hosting is needed, Arvixe.com is cheap. $4 US a month.
Heehee, I went to high school with and am friends with the guy who runs Arvixe.com. :D
sweet, can you get him to make my hosting free? :P
raevol wrote:
Hircine wrote:sweet, can you get him to make my hosting free? :P
I wish, haha, he won't even give me free hosting. ;)
Hircine wrote:
raevol wrote:
Hircine wrote:sweet, can you get him to make my hosting free? :P
I wish, haha, he won't even give me free hosting. ;)
np :P

well if igro has spare hosting, we just need someone to fork out for a domain.

I have $4.50 US in my paypal account i can offer! :)

I doesn't matter who the administrator or owner is, as long as there is at least 2 people with access to the domain/site at any one point in time.
Zini wrote:
Thats right, but I would like you to be the owner and administrator of new domain (openmw.org) so in case of any unexpected accidents there will be no problem to switch (change dns or www server ip) between webhosting (mine to other, etc.).
When I took over OpenMW, it was under the condition that I would only handle the code development side, while the community would bound together to handle the administrative side and all related tasks. As You might know I have another spare time project (U9 Redemption) and that was the only way I could hope to handle both.

I don't know much about the whole domain administration stuff. I guess a joint ownership between our two web admins is not possible?

If it is really just giving my name (so we are not left standing in the cold again when someone disappears) and if that is what you guys think is best, then it is okay with me. I certainly won't disappear on you without notice (unless I am hit by lightning or something).
lgro wrote: OK, I've just registered openmw.org and when it will be visible (I think it would take from few hours to one day until DNS will propagate domain everywhere)
I will start preparing main site, wiki and forum. Is there any possibility to get forum and mantis database - if not then I will prepare clean forum with same
subforums structure, but what should I do for Redmine?
Zini wrote:
Is there any possibility to get forum and mantis database
Our forum admin hasn't logged in for almost a month. So that is most likely a no.
but what should I do for Redmine?
I guess we could copy over the tracker content manually. About a dozen categories, 174 issues, 2 projects and 2 releases. Sounds like a lot of work, but maybe we can find some volunteers that share the work between them?
lgro wrote:
Zini wrote:
Is there any possibility to get forum and mantis database
Our forum admin hasn't logged in for almost a month. So that is most likely a no.
but what should I do for Redmine?
I guess we could copy over the tracker content manually. About a dozen categories, 174 issues, 2 projects and 2 releases. Sounds like a lot of work, but maybe we can find some volunteers that share the work between them?
OK, I will prepare clean Redmine and start coping all things from mantis.
raevol wrote: I will help as much as possible with this, I don't have a lot of large blocks of free time, but I will check in this weekend if I do.
lgro wrote: OK, so basic website is created and working (it's not fully finished - I will continue work at weekend):
http://openmw.org, forum: http://openmw.org/forum, wiki: http://openmw.org/wiki, redmine: http://bugs.openmw.org/.

One note - sometimes redmine (precisely nginx phusion passenger and ruby application) startup can be really slow - up to one minute, but this should not occurs very often
and redmine should works pretty fast. This occasionally slowdown is a know issue and rootnode admins are working on it (they are testing new servers cluster designed
for web applications which should replace current server in near future).

Feel free to register on main site, forum (wiki user accounts are integrated with forum) and redmine, but please remember to use the same nick names as here :)
jhooks1 wrote: Sweet, so are we switching all discussion to the new forum?
lgro wrote: I forgot to mention - if somebody wants to edit wiki, then he/she should join to Wiki group in forum.
raevol wrote:
jhooks1 wrote:Sweet, so are we switching all discussion to the new forum?
Should we wait and see if we can save any of the threads from here? Or did we give that up for lost since our web admin is completely M.I.A?
lgro wrote: Redmine and Wordpress login should work now - there was a problem with e-mail notifications in Redmine (it's fixed) and in Wordpress login link was hidden (it's visible).
swick wrote: the activation link in the registration mail from bugs.openmw.org is localhost:3000. Should be bugs.openmw.org
lgro wrote:
swick wrote:the activation link in the registration mail from bugs.openmw.org is localhost:3000. Should be bugs.openmw.org
Thanks, it's corrected now. I forgot to change this.
Zini wrote: Next we will have to migrate the wiki. I know someone here on the forum had found a link to a location where the wiki was cached. Any idea?
Zini wrote: Actually, google still has some of our stuff. Example: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... .google.de

Edit: And here another one: http://74.6.238.254/search/srpcache?ei= ... 9Gh6kiAw--

But I have absolutely no clue how we can use that to get systematically all the pages.
Rhys wrote: Most of these results are cached/snap-shotted, nearly 4 pages on google, some are couple of months old
http://www.google.com/#q=site:openmw.co ... 66&bih=677

Bing has some too, highlight over the listing-then the arrow that pops-up and select the cached page link from that popup. As far as I know these are the same as yahoo.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=site%3Aope ... H&filt=all

Note it's possible not all the page is cached(some sort of size limit).
Zini wrote: There are a few important pages on these links. Kinda relieved that the scripting status page is still available. Without it I would have no clue which script instructions are already implemented.

But there are a lot important pages missing also. Can we find any other sources?

For now we could start to salvage what we have found so far. I guess there is no automated way to do it? Each page must be manually restored? If that is the case, we should coordinate it here in the thread so we don't get two people trying to restore the same page. I hope we get enough volunteers.
Rhys wrote: You can copy the source for the bodyContent div, throw that into a html to wiki converter and that will get you really quite a bit of the way started. Obviously it still needs manual tidy up, once you know what needs changing, it should be pretty quick.

I can help out recreating the pages although I haven't used wiki markup for a while, we should make sure the page names are the same.
Zini wrote:
html to wiki converter
Clever! Didn't know that such a thing exists.

Any chance we can get the old main page back? I think it was very well designed and it would also give us a list of things we need to look for.
Rhys wrote: Found it! Some stage of it anyway.
http://cache.baidu.jp/jp?word=openmw%3B ... er=baidujp
That's actually the only result of openmw.com in baidu japan.
Zini wrote: That's the right one. Great work!
Rhys wrote: Are there any pages already in the new wiki which are to be kept?
I have the old main page tacked onto the bottom of the new main page for now. I've started editing it, looks like it has converted with a combination of tables and <div> type formatting (which works completely) Is this how it was before?
I think I will try to convert it to wiki tables only because it looks really messy to read.
lgro wrote:
Rhys wrote:Are there any pages already in the new wiki which are to be kept?
I have the old main page tacked onto the bottom of the new main page for now. I've started editing it, looks like it has converted with a combination of tables and <div> type formatting (which works completely) Is this how it was before?
I think I will try to convert it to wiki tables only because it looks really messy to read.
Sorry, but I overwrite your main page version (I didn't notice that you're editing), if you need then feel free to revert it or change suitable fragments.

List of pages restored from google cache: http://openmw.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4#p45
Rhys wrote: It's alright, I'm pretty slow anyway :?
lgro wrote: Btw. I found another html->wiki converter: http://toolserver.org/~diberri/cgi-bin/ ... /index.cgi
sir_herrbatka wrote: nice tool
Zini wrote: Not bad. Any chance we can get back a few more wiki pages?

Not very useful, but important from a historical perspective would be:

* Project History

Very useful (not sure if we can recreate them from scratch without missing anything important):

* Installation Instructions
* Developers
* Web Presence
* Tools and Documents
* FAQ

And finally replaceable, but only with a large amount of effort:

* Controls and Commands
* Developer References (and all sub-pages)

If we get most of these back, we only need to adjust some links, maybe do something about the skin and then we should be good.

Edit And the formulae page (belonging to the last category). lgro found it. Good.
Rhys wrote: Restored
*GUI (Status) 25.06.2011
*Ideas/Combat 25.06.2011
*FAQ 22.06.2011

Still looking for more.

Edit
*Completed Milestones 14.06.2011
*Legend (Roadmap) 11 Jun 2011
*Naming Conventions 15 May 2011
*Installation Instructions 25 May 2011
*Changelog 7 June 2011
*Contribute 25 May 2011
*Developer Reference 4 June 2011
*Code Formatting Conventions 25 May 2011 - Someone with the knowledge will need to clean this up if they want, I don't know how the example formatting has to be.

*Policies and Standards 15 May 2011
*Architecture 28 May 2011
*Record Store 26 May 2011

"Web presence" and "tools and documents" are listed but not cached.
btw Google is sometimes asking me to enter codes to continue, and yahoo blocked me yesterday-error 999 :lol:
Zini wrote:
*Code Formatting Conventions 25 May 2011 - Someone with the knowledge will need to clean this up if they want, I don't know how the example formatting has to be.
Looks actually okay (with a minor correction). The only problem is that the html converter produced some really strange wiki markup, which makes it impossible to restore proper syntax highlighting. But no big problem. It can stay as it is. The code examples are hardly complex enough to require syntax highlighting.
Zini wrote: Still missing "Branching Policy" and "Dependency Policy" from the Developer Reference section.

"Github FAQ" and "Older Doumentation" are not that important (though it would still be nice to get it back).

btw. we need to re-write the installation instructions on the website. They are not correct anymore (at least on some platforms).
Rhys wrote: Added
* Older Documentation 28 May 2011 -this page, again has a small snippet of code which is not great.
*Morrowind Interior Cell Names 12 Jun 2011
*Roadmap 21 June 2011

I think that's all I've got, sorry mate.
lgro wrote:
Zini wrote:
*Code Formatting Conventions 25 May 2011 - Someone with the knowledge will need to clean this up if they want, I don't know how the example formatting has to be.
Looks actually okay (with a minor correction). The only problem is that the html converter produced some really strange wiki markup, which makes it impossible to restore proper syntax highlighting. But no big problem. It can stay as it is. The code examples are hardly complex enough to require syntax highlighting.
I will clean this up today at evening. Syntax highlighting is done via SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension.
lgro wrote:
Rhys wrote:Added
* Older Documentation 28 May 2011 -this page, again has a small snippet of code which is not great.
*Morrowind Interior Cell Names 12 Jun 2011
*Roadmap 21 June 2011

I think that's all I've got, sorry mate.
Good work!
Zini wrote: Yeah! We are still missing a few bits, but they can either be replaced or are not important. Forum next?
lgro wrote:
Zini wrote:Yeah! We are still missing a few bits, but they can either be replaced or are not important. Forum next?
Yes, I will modify a bit a web crawler scripts (links are on new forum) and start converting the data - I don't know how much time it will take.
(I saw your task list on new forum - I will reply when I go back home).
lgro wrote: I've started downloading content of this forum. Probably this night, or tomorrow I will copy data to the new forum inside "Old forum archive",
and because of that I have kindly request - please move discussions to the new forum (please make topic with same name - after all needed
data will be copied I will make a proper references in first post of such topics), because in other case I will have problem with synchronization
of topics. Thanks for cooperation, and sorry for inconvenience.
best regards,
Lukasz

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