I meant to do the 0.41.0 thread in the first half of this week (probably tomorrow). But I guess someone was faster than me
Okay then, we can as well handle the topic in a separate thread. As you have noticed I made some changes to the tracker. The opwnmw-0.41 milestone contains only OpenMW tasks and finished OpenMW-CS tasks. All other OpenMW-CS tasks have been moved out (mostly to openmw-cs-1.0).
For long time I was hoping we could release OpenMW 1.0 and OpenMW-CS 1.0 at the same time (this approach has a lot of advantages discussed elsewhere). However that meant that we dragged our feet with OpenMW 1.0. The new roadmap should at least make the situation a bit more clear.
I intend to at least partially direct newcomers to OpenMW instead of OpenMW-CS from now on. Hopefully that will speed up development a bit.
And this is the situation with OpenMW 1.0: We have indeed only a small number of tasks left. But most of them are on the hard end of the difficulty spectrum (not surprising that the easier tasks got picked off first). Therefore the low number of tasks is a bit misleading. There is still a considerable amount of work to do.
1.0 roundtable
Re: 1.0 roundtable
ahm, with all respect to you Sir: I won't second that. Obviously, the point is not blowing up the release condition of 1.0 to features and features. *But* the developers here have to decide *what* should be implemented and make *clear decisions* what not.MrAnonGuy wrote:Just a casual observation from an outsider. Consider this..
"Art is never finished, only abandoned." - Leonardo da Vinci
As with any creative endeavour, it's never really finished. If you're only wiling to accept perfection, there will never be V1.0. At some point, it becomes ready for release and any little issues that are still hanging around, or happen to pop up, can be handled in maintenance releases.
My two pennies: Distand Land and Shadowing are so much a subject of experience to the mean Morrowind player, that he will miss them what ever you tell him how good your job was done;) /€dit: eehm: I saw Hrnchmd somewhere on the list here. Is he active ?
*Bugfixing* is not e secondary term. There is no more annoying thing in the gaming world but grand releases with a payed beta phasis in consequence. I remember softly, how long this Linux Kernel 1.0 needed to be released. Why: The Developers were absolutely shure, that they had to do an absolutely good job. I got my first hand on a Slackware 0.99somethingpresomething else kernel down in 1994. They wanted to make it perfekt. They knew, it *has to be perfekt*. But obviously, you also have to say, what will *not* be in that kernel and forget about that until past 1.0
So, the only thing I can tell here is: Make yourself clear what you are doing.
Make clear what you *want to do*
Make clear, what you *can* do
And then:
....... just do it
Greetings from the fan community
Re: 1.0 roundtable
Out of curiosity, what is the timeframe for reimplementation of shadows and distant land?
Re: 1.0 roundtable
Best Guess: 1.0clocknova wrote:Out of curiosity, what is the timeframe for reimplementation of shadows and distant land?
However: You shouldn't put such pressure on the developers right now. They guessing for themselves
I'm especially waiting for that news relating to hrnchmd
*tapping with those toes tipping*
Re: 1.0 roundtable
zini, it's a great honor to meet you here. But all I can tell is, that there should really be a closed forum, where you and your friends should diskuss things relating to you and your friends.Zini wrote:I meant to do the 0.41.0 thread in the first half of this week (probably tomorrow). But I guess someone was faster than me
Okay then, we can as well handle the topic in a separate thread. As you have noticed I made some changes to the tracker. The opwnmw-0.41 milestone contains only OpenMW tasks and finished OpenMW-CS tasks. All other OpenMW-CS tasks have been moved out (mostly to openmw-cs-1.0).
For long time I was hoping we could release OpenMW 1.0 and OpenMW-CS 1.0 at the same time (this approach has a lot of advantages discussed elsewhere). However that meant that we dragged our feet with OpenMW 1.0. The new roadmap should at least make the situation a bit more clear.
I intend to at least partially direct newcomers to OpenMW instead of OpenMW-CS from now on. Hopefully that will speed up development a bit.
And this is the situation with OpenMW 1.0: We have indeed only a small number of tasks left. But most of them are on the hard end of the difficulty spectrum (not surprising that the easier tasks got picked off first). Therefore the low number of tasks is a bit misleading. There is still a considerable amount of work to do.
So long and thank you all for this tremendous work
€dit; obviously had to be: closed, not "dis"closed forum
@Joke: I tried to delete this dubblepost and didn't.
So sorry about that
pppHB ;? If you can help please do!
- silentthief
- Posts: 456
- Joined: 18 Apr 2013, 01:20
- Location: Currently traversing the Ascadian Isles
Re: 1.0 roundtable
agree with that. The definition of 1.0 meaning no bugs is only a must if the development ends at 1.0MrAnonGuy wrote:Just a casual observation from an outsider. Consider this..
"Art is never finished, only abandoned." - Leonardo da Vinci
As with any creative endeavour, it's never really finished. If you're only wiling to accept perfection, there will never be V1.0. At some point, it becomes ready for release and any little issues that are still hanging around, or happen to pop up, can be handled in maintenance releases.
If openMW went 1.0 we would most likely see a huge influx of users (potential devs possibly, bugtesters guaranteed). I think we should try not to send out a flawed product, but even commercial products come out and have bugs found later that they patch.
just throwin in my 2 cents
ST with 2 cents to share
Re: 1.0 roundtable
Bugs aren't really a problem with OpenMW to my experience. I don't think we need to worry about 1.0 being really buggy, there aren't any huge annoying bugs in version 0.40, and there hasn't really been any huge bugs since, I don't know, the flying slaughterfishes (when was that anyway? 0.29?). My point is that OpenMW is at its current state so bug free that I wouldn't mind at all if it was a commercial product I just bought. Version 1.0 is so close right now that there probably won't be that many new bugs introduced.
But I'm not a dev, so I shouldn't say too much.
But I'm not a dev, so I shouldn't say too much.
Re: 1.0 roundtable
In the end, we have to come up with a list of things do be done before v1.0 can be released. Why don't we take AnyOldName3's list as a starting point?
I would like to add Proper Shadows to the Must list and move Distant Land to the Should list.AnyOldName3 wrote:[...]
This is my current idea, but feel free to copy and/or edit it if you think it aids this discussion.
Must (mandatory requirements that are fundamental to OpenMW):Should (important requirements that could be omitted):
- Have all the features of vanilla Morrowind
Could (optional requirements only to be added if someone wants to and has time):
- Fix every perceived bug in the vanilla engine (not things that might just be bad game design or that could be fixed by a mod).
- Allow the vanilla game and most standard mods to work without alteration.
- Have a mostly-functional editor.
- Have a mostly-functional launcher (e.g. maybe make it possible to add data files directories from the GUI and modify more graphics settings without actually starting the engine)
Want (bells and whistles that are nice to have, but probably should be post-1.0, if ever, unless they're trivial to implement)
- Allow graphical improvements over vanilla Morrowind (e.g. distant land)
- Have a 'good' example suite
- Have extensive editor documentation aimed at users
[...]
- Allow greater modding freedom than vanilla
- Add all the features of popular exe tweaks for vanilla (e.g. MWSE script compatibility, SSAO, anything MCP lets people tweak)
- Enhanced physics, AI etc.
- Support for every other Gamebryo game ever, and hell, why not Unreal, CryEngine, Unity, IdTech etc. too!
- Bring about world peace
Re: 1.0 roundtable
I realized I might have jumped the gun right after posting, but the ensuing discussion was constructive, so thanks for putting up with my rash behavior.Zini wrote:I meant to do the 0.41.0 thread in the first half of this week (probably tomorrow). But I guess someone was faster than me
Thank you for clarifying this issue, I've seen it mentioned in other places on the forum. I support this as the best decision. I would have liked to have the two released simultaneously as well, but it's just not going to happen.Zini wrote:For long time I was hoping we could release OpenMW 1.0 and OpenMW-CS 1.0 at the same time (this approach has a lot of advantages discussed elsewhere). However that meant that we dragged our feet with OpenMW 1.0. The new roadmap should at least make the situation a bit more clear.
So I'd like to formulate a plan for tackling this. My strategy would be this:Zini wrote:And this is the situation with OpenMW 1.0: We have indeed only a small number of tasks left. But most of them are on the hard end of the difficulty spectrum (not surprising that the easier tasks got picked off first). Therefore the low number of tasks is a bit misleading. There is still a considerable amount of work to do.
1. Establish standards for documentation (I think DestinedToDie [edit: I meant DavidD] and psi29a may have started/finished this?)
2. Do a call for help on our documentation.
3. Once our documentation is at a good spot, identify and prioritize our remaining "big ticket" development tasks
4. Do a call for help for development
My personal view is that if we sit on our hands and wait for another scrawl to bless us with an inordinate amount of work, the project is going to stagnate and die off. I'd really like the team's support on this, so that we can coordinate PR and onboarding for documentation contributors. Thoughts?
I strongly beg to differ, because:lysol wrote:Bugs aren't really a problem with OpenMW to my experience. I don't think we need to worry about 1.0 being really buggy, there aren't any huge annoying bugs in version 0.40, and there hasn't really been any huge bugs -snip-
Until the game is stress tested (yes single player games can be stress tested) we won't really know what our bug situation looks like. When our daily PPA was working I was playing regularly, and regularly finding new bugs. But this is best discussed here: http://forum.openmw.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3339silentthief wrote:If openMW went 1.0 we would most likely see a huge influx of users (potential devs possibly, bugtesters guaranteed). I think we should try not to send out a flawed product, but even commercial products come out and have bugs found later that they patch.
Edit: @Atahualpa you're basically doing #3 on my list. And I like your list a lot. We just need to manage getting manpower to get things done.
Last edited by raevol on 06 Sep 2016, 08:28, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 1.0 roundtable
I would like to add Proper Shadows to the Must list and move Distant Land to the Should list.[/quote]Atahualpa wrote:I]
[...]
With respect to my own little esp:
Distand Land is a major feature