The Friendly Neighborhood Systems Analyst Asks: Please Take this Survey!

General discussion regarding the OpenMW project.
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vk1970
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Re: The Friendly Neighborhood Systems Analyst Asks: Please Take this Survey!

Post by vk1970 » 28 Jun 2019, 02:00

Ultimately since this is FOSS, I can and will, when I'm ready, assemble a crew and make the CS into a very powerful IDE that allows for easy management of more sophisticated dialogue trees, more simulation elements, involving stealth, crime, ecology and economics, UI customization for dialogue boxes, and more event driven adventure elements. Animation editing and animation conversion ought to be projected features for which the IDE is in dire need of an additional team. :roll:

Following the design and aesthetic philosophy of the original CS isn't going to cut it; it's an ergonomic train wreck. As for the engine, more advanced physics and lighting generally only add more bugs, glitches and hilarity. They add little or nothing to game-play, story telling, and often even simulation, for an RPG. Ultima Underworld sure as hell didn't need them. And for that matter, what point is there for this engine, which has been on such a long and fascinating journey, to be mentally soft locked into mostly supporting games that at the end of the day are really just glorified ego trips for the player? A more sophisticated editor will facilitate more sophisticated mods and games.

I think It's telling that poor Qarl's TU mod is a mess and doesn't work with OpenMW. It's not just the hot garbage that is mwscript...

Ultimately, the point of what might seem like pointless blather to you, is that the focus on the engine at the expense of the CS is rather short sighted. I'm not asking the current team for any of this, I'm telling you this needs to be done and will be done, sooner or later, by either team I assemble or someone maybe even more patient but also desperate.
Last edited by vk1970 on 28 Jun 2019, 22:07, edited 1 time in total.

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psi29a
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Re: The Friendly Neighborhood Systems Analyst Asks: Please Take this Survey!

Post by psi29a » 28 Jun 2019, 08:49

I think we all agree that it needs more love and it has a long way to go...

The problem is finding people who want to spend time on OpenMW-CS.

And saying: Hey devs, you should work on this! Well... yes, that's a bit like 'herding cats'. People want to work on what they work on because it is their volunteer (free time) to work on whatever it is that pleases them. Just setting expectations here. If you can drum up a team, please do. :)

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lysol
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Re: The Friendly Neighborhood Systems Analyst Asks: Please Take this Survey!

Post by lysol » 28 Jun 2019, 09:41

vk1970 wrote:
28 Jun 2019, 00:30
And no offense, but from how far up your ass did you have to reach to pull this notion that I had any interest in 2d in OpenMW?
Hey, easy now. You're just misunderstanding each other. We're all happy you're here with an interest of working with the CS. We just need to make sure everyone is on the same page and that's what this discussion is about.
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raevol
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Re: The Friendly Neighborhood Systems Analyst Asks: Please Take this Survey!

Post by raevol » 28 Jun 2019, 10:45

vk1970 wrote:
28 Jun 2019, 02:00
I can and will [...] make the CS into a very powerful IDE that allows for easy management of more sophisticated dialogue trees, more simulation elements, involving stealth, crime, ecology and economics, UI customization for dialogue boxes, and more event driven adventure elements.
We'll be waiting. Can't wait to see your work!
vk1970 wrote:
28 Jun 2019, 02:00
... the focus on the engine at the expense of the CS is rather short sighted. I'm not asking the current team for any of this, I'm telling you this needs to be done and will be done, sooner or later, by either team I assemble or someone maybe even more patient but also desperate.
Again, we'll be waiting. Also some of us just want to play Morrowind. Making mods for Morrowind without being able to play them would be pretty dumb.

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DestinedToDie
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Re: The Friendly Neighborhood Systems Analyst Asks: Please Take this Survey!

Post by DestinedToDie » 28 Jun 2019, 17:41

vk1970 wrote:
28 Jun 2019, 02:00
I'm not asking the current team for any of this, I'm telling you this needs to be done and will be done, sooner or later, by either team I assemble or someone maybe even more patient but also desperate.
I feel like I need to cheerlead so here I'm cheerleading I guess. Please do! Any help we can get, especially if it's help on the CS which is lagging behind the engine is appreciated. Firstly, getting the CS to the point where you can do anything you could do in the Morrowind-CS, then start building upon that.

Ebonair
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Re: The Friendly Neighborhood Systems Analyst Asks: Please Take this Survey!

Post by Ebonair » 28 Jun 2019, 17:51

1. Are you also interested in utilizing OpenMW as an engine for your own game project? If yes, please describe what you have in mind, and what mechanics you feel you need to add,remove, or alter in the engine, or alternatively, how would you manage to adapt to your setting as is?
No.
2. If you're here more for TES, what if any mechanics from other games in the series do you feel merit the highest priorties for development?
I like the way the NPCs in later games walk around more, and have daily routines. Also the random encounters in Skyrim, like a group of high elves with a prisoner, or some wizards fighting. It made the world feel less empty. And being able to play a vampire without being completely blocked from talking to people, it would be nice if you could talk to them but with a hefty disposition penalty instead.

I know there are mods for some of these things, but it's a hassle to search through them, try to figure out which ones are good, which are bad, which ones conflict, whether they work with OpenMW, whether they are buggy or incomplete, which order to install them, etc. I just want to install and play the game, and I think many others are the same? I've seen similar problems in Linux desktop environments; there are a gazillion options, but sometimes not enough effort to pick good default features, choices that leverage the dev's knowledge, good judgement and expertise to enhance user experience.

I believe more players will enjoy these mods if they are included than if they are not. (And also Morrowind itself)
3. Do you think we ought to add procedural generation to the editor to speed up the building of world spaces and dungeons? Why or why not?
I don't know enough about it to have an opinion.
4. What was your honest reaction to Zini's Post 1.0 Doc?
I'm worried that multiplayer integration with TESMP will never happen. The doc states that it will take place in the distant post-1.0 future. I've always felt it's better to get the pain over with sooner rather than later. If you intend to switch to a client-server model, that's a massive and hugely disruptive change, and it seems to me that the longer you wait, the more code will need to be converted.

Also as in point 2, I believe that more mod-makers will test their mods with multiplayer if it is included in OpenMW by default.

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DestinedToDie
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Re: The Friendly Neighborhood Systems Analyst Asks: Please Take this Survey!

Post by DestinedToDie » 28 Jun 2019, 18:13

vk1970 wrote:
26 Jun 2019, 18:36
1. Are you also interested in utilizing OpenMW as an engine for your own game project? If yes, please describe what you have in mind, and what mechanics you feel you need to add,remove, or alter in the engine, or alternatively, how would you manage to adapt to your setting as is?
Yes, dark fantasy setting. You know how Morrowind has a daynight cycle? Well, I'd like more control over the daynight cycle, time, waiting and rest mechanic. Right now, I can set it so that the entire 24 hours is night, but the 0 hours that is day flashes the sun momentarily. I want a true 24 hour night. Also, an option to change daynight cycle inside the game with scripts instead of doing it in a .txt file.

Item drops need just a slight extension.... I want rare drops, something like 1 in a 10 thousand. Currently the rarest you can make an item drop be is 1% chance.

Also give me more control over equippable item types, weapon types, spells. That's kinda already planned with dehardcoding, though, so I'm happy that part of Zini's doc.
vk1970 wrote:
26 Jun 2019, 18:36

3. Do you think we ought to add procedural generation to the editor to speed up the building of world spaces and dungeons? Why or why not?
Yeah sure, it would help the speed. I don't plan on using it though, I suspect they used some half-measure of it in later TES games and that's why everything looks so generic. Rather than have a computer generate a vast area, I'd prefer to take my time and get creative.
vk1970 wrote:
26 Jun 2019, 18:36

4. What was your honest reaction to Zini's Post 1.0 Doc?
Yay for dehardcoding! Don't care much about NPC schedules. I understand the appeal, but I'm not going to compete with Skyrim or the next TES game. The plan is more so towards making something original instead of spending time to make NPC schedules that would replicate what happens in some other game. I'd actually just focus on dialogue, lore, quests. Since those are things TES developers seemed to have grown more distant from, creating a gap waiting to be filled by a game on the OpenMW engine.

erretel
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Re: The Friendly Neighborhood Systems Analyst Asks: Please Take this Survey!

Post by erretel » 28 Jun 2019, 19:35

vk1970 wrote:
26 Jun 2019, 18:36
1. Are you also interested in utilizing OpenMW as an engine for your own game project? If yes, please describe what you have in mind, and what mechanics you feel you need to add,remove, or alter in the engine, or alternatively, how would you manage to adapt to your setting as is?
No.
2. If you're here more for TES, what if any mechanics from other games in the series do you feel merit the highest priorties for development?
I just want the Editor and the Engine to be open and flexible enough for people (including myself) to make all sort of mods. I'm against the idea of modifying the vanilla game too much. Leave it to the modding community.
3. Do you think we ought to add procedural generation to the editor to speed up the building of world spaces and dungeons? Why or why not?
Maybe, but I think it would be preferable to let the editor be open enough that users can write scripts to do that kind of stuff. Said that I'm not really against those features coming prepackaged.
4. What was your honest reaction to Zini's Post 1.0 Doc?
Not enough focus on the implementation of a proper scripting language. But from what I've read there have been a change of mind about that.

silentthief
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Re: The Friendly Neighborhood Systems Analyst Asks: Please Take this Survey!

Post by silentthief » 01 Jul 2019, 00:05

vk1970 wrote:
26 Jun 2019, 18:36
1. Are you also interested in utilizing OpenMW as an engine for your own game project? If yes, please describe what you have in mind, and what mechanics you feel you need to add,remove, or alter in the engine, or alternatively, how would you manage to adapt to your setting as is?
I am of two minds:

On one hand I love the Morrowind world and lore, the alien landscape and the beauty of the land. I fell in love with the game Morrowind on XBox and then grabbed a PC version and was floored by the construction set, and the community of players/modders. I have the desire to install and play Morrowind and make the (in my opinion) perfect install. I also think that the Tamreil Rebuilt project is the logical progression of that. I think it would rock to play that multiplayer on a server that I spun up as well. I think that there could be some gameplay tweaks and even new controls/mechanics (climbing for example).

On the other hand, I think it would be great to make a Morrowind-like game that has a whole new world. I mean, people have been discussing using the vanilla engine/CS to make a total conversion since they learned how to mod the game, and while I don't think that was possible with the original engine now it becomes possible. I know that its been said that there are *better* engines for game design. I just think that it would not be a bad thing to use a familiar style of game play but in a new environment.

Ultimately, I would like to have more than one installation, one running a morrowind install as well as others.
vk1970 wrote:
26 Jun 2019, 18:36
2. If you're here more for TES...
As I mentioned above, kind of middle ground on that...
vk1970 wrote:
26 Jun 2019, 18:36
...what if any mechanics from other games in the series do you feel merit the highest priorties for development?
This is going to be a rather erratic list. There are so many things I liked in other games that may not work if just thrown into the mix. But, here goes: For the progression of OpenMW, I think that we need our own assets, and I think that the vanilla morrowind assets are a little static. I mean, I played Fable and I liked the character customization (changing hair, facial hair). I played Chronicles of Riddick, and I liked the stealth ability to snap an enemy's neck if you managed to sneak up on them - and I believe that stealth is kind of underdeveloped in Morrowind. I played Kingdom under fire, and I liked the ability to command units of an army on the fly, and that may not be a gameplay feature that is needed in Morrowind, it would be nice to have in a fantasy/medieval war game style of play.
vk1970 wrote:
26 Jun 2019, 18:36
3. Do you think we ought to add procedural generation to the editor to speed up the building of world spaces and dungeons? Why or why not?
I do. Procedural generation can be great for creating things when you don't have an idea, or if you need to rapid create things. That being said, I am of the belief that a mod designer would still have to put hands on and manually edit anything that is created.
vk1970 wrote:
26 Jun 2019, 18:36
4. What was your honest reaction to Zini's Post 1.0 Doc?
I think it is a great thing because it shows that there is a direction to the future of the project. Without this, I believe that the development would stall and worry about "feature creep"

ST the creep
(edited for clarity/punctuation errors)
"Hurry, hurry! Last boat to Solstheim! Until the next one. Hah-ha-hah."

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AnyOldName3
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Re: The Friendly Neighborhood Systems Analyst Asks: Please Take this Survey!

Post by AnyOldName3 » 01 Jul 2019, 00:29

Um, you've just quoted a post and not posted anything.
AnyOldName3, Master of Shadows

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