Race height/weight limited to minimum of 0.5 scale

[SatoriLotus]

Hey everyone,


First off I want to say congrats on the .42 release to the dev team! Great job guys.


My issue is that the vanilla CS has a minimum limit of a 0.5 scale setting for races, whenever I set it lower it just jumps back up to 0.5: I'm trying to create the Minish/Picori at a height of approximately 10 inches (I'm estimating 0.15 scale.)

Now, I'm personally a bit confused on the state of OpenMW-CS. Could I create a new race plugin without any issues right now? - Also, does it have this limitation as well?


Thanks in advance.

[DestinedToDie]

I'm pretty sure OpenMW-CS is functional in this area. Try it out and let us know if setting it to 0.4 works.

[SatoriLotus]

According to the new CS video, the ability to add first person hands was just now added right? Seems like I timed it perfectly.


It worked at 0.15 scale. I'm pretty excited with the results!

Check this out:

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The issues:

-The camera is in front of obstacles to get a closer view in the pictures, the FOV is set to the lowest end of the slider. Can it be extended in the ini or will I just need to manually edit values and instruct users to do the same?

-She runs super fast for her size, as in her steps/gait are too large, could there be a workaround?

-Vanilla users won't be able to use an omwaddon, is there any way to convert to esp or something?

[Frik]

-Vanilla users won't be able to use an omwaddon, is there any way to convert to esp or something?

So far, I haven't had any problems by simply renaming mods created in OpenMW-CS to .esp. Your results may vary.

[SatoriLotus]

Thanks Frik, I'll test that out.

[Chris]

FWIW, the object scale limit is 0.5 to 2.0, which is inherited from vanilla. If you try to force it to something else, it may seem to work initially but at some point (save and reload) it will be forced back to that range. Some mods abuse this behavior to detect when the player reloads a save (force an object to a smaller scale, and when it's no longer that scale, you know the player loaded a save), and even though saving is supposed to be transparent to the game, OpenMW replicates this so mods can react to loading a save.

I don't know how race height and weight interacts with this object scale limit, but I wouldn't rely on anything outside of 0.5 to 2.0 if vanilla doesn't allow it.

[SatoriLotus]

You had me scared there Chris, but I just tested out saving, restarting, and loading and it seems to be fine.

Thanks for the info, though. Now I know that I'll need to avoid scaling with Minish settlements and just use small models instead.


Now if only some of MW's meshes had tighter collision.


Does anyone know if there are plans to do away with the object scale limit? Or is there a technical need for it?




The local vermin have never been so intimidating!

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[Chris]

Or is there a technical need for it?

Not much of a technical reason. Though the general purpose of limiting the scaling is to keep the mesh and texel scaling from going out of control. If you scale down an object a lot, the same polygons and textures cover a smaller area, which makes it seem more detailed compared to other things around it. Similar if you scale it up a lot, the same polygons and texture cover a larger area, making it seem less detailed (blurrier textures, courser polygons) compared to other things.

[unelsson]

I've been trying to find this limitation in code, so far without any success. It feels artificial, although I'm not sure if it's necessary for some Morrowind fixes or mods. I think it's up to artists responsibility to manage how objects look when scaled, not engine-side. Anyway, it would be great if I could find this piece in code, so I could make a custom build without the limitation.

edit: For reference - David pointed this out to me https://github.com/TES3MP/openmw-tes3mp ... 348455f372 , related to scaling.. And the actual part where the limits are would be here https://github.com/OpenMW/openmw/blob/e ... e.cpp#L237

[silentthief]

I've been trying to find this limitation in code, so far without any success. It feels artificial, although I'm not sure if it's necessary for some Morrowind fixes or mods. I think it's up to artists responsibility to manage how objects look when scaled, not engine-side. Anyway, it would be great if I could find this piece in code, so I could make a custom build without the limitation.

edit: For reference - David pointed this out to me https://github.com/TES3MP/openmw-tes3mp ... 348455f372 , related to scaling.. And the actual part where the limits are would be here https://github.com/OpenMW/openmw/blob/e ... e.cpp#L237

not a dev, not sure on the code, and so not directly answering your question. For that I apologize. But, iirc, the limit on scale was similar to the limit on scale in vanilla MW CS. I remember that without scripting, you could only half or double the size of a given object, so I assume that this limit exists intentionally.

That being said - if you do get a pull request for change in scale and that gets added back in, that would be an interesting feature. I had thought of the idea of wearable sets of armor that make you giant (anyone interested in some mech warrior/morrowind cross-over?) or making like a cloud world you could travel to where there were enemy giants that you would have to deal with

ST