Natural Character Growth and Decay - An OpenMW Leveling Mod

Questions specific to OpenMW-CS can be asked, and content development related topics can be discussed here
LoneWolf
Posts: 12
Joined: 26 Sep 2017, 19:13

Re: Natural Character Growth and Decay - An OpenMW Leveling Mod

Post by LoneWolf » 10 Oct 2017, 14:35

I may have been a bit to mysterious / technical in my previous post, so i'll try to explain what i found.

The ncgdmw readme and spreadsheet suggest the contribution to attributes from primary / secondary / tertiary skills goes like this :

primary : secondary : tertiary = 4 : 2 : 1

The used code however results in this ratio :
primary : secondary : tertiary = 2 : 1.41 : 1

In other words , having 50 skill in 2x tertiary endurance skills ( say blunt weapon & alchemy ) contributes the same to endurance as having 50 in 1x primary endurance skill like block .
Having 50 skill in 2x secondary endurance skills (say athlettics & light armor ) contributes more to endurance than 50 in 1x primary endurance skill .

This makes primary skills feel very undervalued and i think the calculation needs to be changed.

I do like ncgdmw and the cap removal method used by greywander is ingenious but it does have issues that need correction.

another example:
Quest rewards that change atttributes like the 2 strength increase from returning Cloudcleaver to Hlormar Wine-Sot don't work.

I do hope greywander is subscribed to this thread.

jonimacarroni
Posts: 14
Joined: 26 Sep 2017, 23:43

Re: Natural Character Growth and Decay - An OpenMW Leveling Mod

Post by jonimacarroni » 22 Oct 2017, 12:36

Just to inform that this mod has stopped working on the newest nightlies. As soon as you get out of the census office and click to select the levelling speed the game crashes to desktop.

User avatar
Amenophis
Posts: 232
Joined: 30 Oct 2011, 04:34
Location: Fortaleza - Ceará - Brasil

Re: Natural Character Growth and Decay - An OpenMW Leveling Mod

Post by Amenophis » 22 Oct 2017, 14:13

You should report that to Team. We are near to a new release and such regression would be very annoying.
http://bugs.openmw.org/projects/openmw/activity
My fixes and tweaks on vanilla and modded quests for Morrowind.
http://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/43107/?

jonimacarroni
Posts: 14
Joined: 26 Sep 2017, 23:43

Re: Natural Character Growth and Decay - An OpenMW Leveling Mod

Post by jonimacarroni » 24 Oct 2017, 19:55

I did as you asked and reported the issue.
EDIT: Disregard this, apparently has been fixed yesterday.

Falc
Posts: 13
Joined: 18 Jun 2017, 22:14

Re: Natural Character Growth and Decay - An OpenMW Leveling Mod

Post by Falc » 30 Dec 2017, 14:40

I'm getting an error message that its asked me to report:

http://i.imgur.com/FmVGqpB.png

I'm not sure why the screen shot didn't capture the rest of the message, but it says 'NCGD was expecting your base personality to be -5, but instead it was 0'.

LoneWolf
Posts: 12
Joined: 26 Sep 2017, 19:13

Re: Natural Character Growth and Decay - An OpenMW Leveling Mod

Post by LoneWolf » 04 Jan 2018, 16:15

I've looked into the skill increase / attribute increase more, and now feel I had a wrong expectation of it.
The terms ncgdmw uses for attribute growth is misleading.
fast is close to vanilla morrowind leveling system and should probably be called normal.
For standard and slow hard & very hard would be a lot more appropriate.

I also tested the code change i posted in a bug report on nexus, https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/44967/.
It adjusts the stored values when ncgdmw sees the 2 strength increase from returning cloudcleaver and I didn't find any problems with it.
If someone wants my edited version of ncgdmw, just let me know.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Falc, I looked at ncgdmw code and think the error you got may be a symptom of a bigger problem.
Afaics the number subtracted from starting attribute values is 25 , and that is only at initialization.

With a normal start 30 is lowest possible starting value before ncgdmw kicks in.
Even if all skills started at 0, no stored value should be lower then 5 .
Damage and drain attribute effects should have no influence on those stored vars.

Are you playing openmw or TES3MP ?

Are you running a mod that allows alternative starts, changes racial bonuses or birthsigns ?
please post your mod list.

What quests had you finished when this occured ?
What were your attribute values and how does unequipping everything change them ?

weedfreak
Posts: 54
Joined: 29 Jan 2016, 09:44

Re: Natural Character Growth and Decay - An OpenMW Leveling Mod

Post by weedfreak » 05 Jan 2018, 10:38

For information this mod does not work with quick or alternative starts, at best you get the error Falc reported usually you die immediately.

I rewrote most of this mod as I start with altered racial bonuses and birthsigns and radically reduced attributes and skills. Normally you have no start attribute over 25 and no skill over 15. I removed the code for choosing growth rates, you are stuck with what you call very hard. It takes about 3 days game time to see any increases and do not think about getting into a serious fight for a couple of weeks, even mud crabs are dangerous. But this is how I prefer to play.

Falc
Posts: 13
Joined: 18 Jun 2017, 22:14

Re: Natural Character Growth and Decay - An OpenMW Leveling Mod

Post by Falc » 07 Jan 2018, 02:18

@Lonewolf

This occurs right at the start of the game when I leave the Census building, its in a normal game of OpenMW.

I'm using BTB's character plugin which alters racial bonuses and birthsigns.

I think this is probably causing the conflict, is this a serious issue or can I keep using both of them?

LoneWolf
Posts: 12
Joined: 26 Sep 2017, 19:13

Re: Natural Character Growth and Decay - An OpenMW Leveling Mod

Post by LoneWolf » 09 Jan 2018, 18:57

I've looked into the BTB charater plugin and there are 2 potential conflicts with ncgdmw in it.

First is the disabling of birthsign stat boosters when sleeping (designed to make sure the boosters don't limit max attribute to 100 upon levelling)
ncgdmw doesn't use the morrowind leveling at all, but has it's own system to allow attributes to go over 100.
BTB used fortify attributes / fortify skill spells for the boosters that should work fine with ncgdmw .



second are the changes btb made to starting values :
All races except dark elves/ imperial / argonian have atleast one attribute value that starts at 20 .
ncgdmw subtracts 25 from all starting attributes so the attributes that start at 20 become -5 .

I doubt very much openmw / morrrowind allow negative values for attributes and change them to 0 .

Either BTB character plugin or ncgdmw need to change to prevent this.

The simplest solution would probably be an edited version of btb character plugin with 25 instead fo 20 as lowest racial value.
Doing it that way imo stays close to what BTB and greywander wanted to achieve with their plugins.

All other ways this can be solved are a lot more intrusive.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest