(Solved) Requirements to join a faction

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Aradesh
Posts: 4
Joined: 30 May 2017, 20:00

(Solved) Requirements to join a faction

Post by Aradesh » 30 May 2017, 20:17

I might have stumbled across a weird bug, which might possibly be caused by OpenMW. Other mods aren't the problem, because i use very few. Most of them are just minor fixes/changes i've done with the Construction Set, and also a few things which change a few meshes and/or textures (signposts, for example). I did stuff like add 0.5x magicka multiplier for Dunmer, change "Imperial Chain Pauldrons" to "medium armor", moved "Turn Undead" from Conjuration to Restoration... The game is otherwise "vanilla".

Anyways, the problem is that i am unable to join the Thieves Guild. As far as i know, there are no requirements for joining any faction, that only comes up later with advancement. Regardless, i am indeed a thief with thief-related skills in the 40's, high agility and all that, but when i try to join, i get "We have our standards, and you do not meet them", even though there are no standards for joining.

This happened twice. Once on a Dunmer nightblade, and once on a Dunmer agent/thief kind of guy. Strangely, no other character has this problem. I've tried with different races (Imperial, Nord, Breton), and various classes. No problem at all, they can join the guild. The only characters who can't join are Dunmer thieves. I've added the 0.5x magicka multiplier to them via the CS, but i don't see how this would have any effect on this strange occurence. Truly strange.

Edit: Oh, and i'm running OpenMW on Linux (Lubuntu/Ubuntu).

Edit2: Just made a new Dunmer "Thief". Works fine. No idea what could've possibly caused the bug to happen the last two times. I also tried "enableracemenu" on the bugged character, and that fixed it.

Edit3: Fiddled with the console commands. Joined the faction via PCJoinFaction "Faction". Changed my reputation within the faction to a high number so i could immediately advance in ranks. Same problem occurs, except the text is "Nobody questions your loyalty, but you must practice...". Apparently, my skills/attributes aren't high enough, even though they are.
Last edited by Aradesh on 31 May 2017, 19:15, edited 1 time in total.

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DestinedToDie
Posts: 1056
Joined: 29 Jun 2015, 09:08

Re: (Possibly) a weird bug?

Post by DestinedToDie » 30 May 2017, 22:27

I suspect that this is not a bug at all.

Faction joining requirements are a thing. They are supposed to reject you if you do not meet certain requirements. Most of the time those requirements are easily met, which is why you very rarely see a rejection like this pop up. Most likely, everything is working as intended.

jmelesky
Posts: 19
Joined: 02 Mar 2017, 20:52

Re: (Possibly) a weird bug?

Post by jmelesky » 30 May 2017, 23:53

As far as i know, there are no requirements for joining any faction, that only comes up later with advancement.
There are requirements for joining, but they're not skill requirements. The faction's two favored attributes (Agility and Personality for the Thieves Guild) need to both be at a minimum level (30 for the Thieves Guild). Generally, that's not an issue, as starting characters usually don't have attributes below 30, but if you somehow do (perhaps by suffering from a Damage Attribute effect), then that will prevent joining.

The Thieves Guild also has a specific plot element which will prevent joining. If you are a member of the Fighters Guild, and you advance to a certain point and complete a certain quest, the Thieves Guild will refuse to allow you to join. I do not know if that refusal uses the standard dialog text you quoted.

Is it possible that any of those scenarios are occurring in your games?

(also, this may be more relevant to the Support forum)

Aradesh
Posts: 4
Joined: 30 May 2017, 20:00

Re: (Possibly) a weird bug?

Post by Aradesh » 31 May 2017, 00:07

jmelesky wrote:
30 May 2017, 23:53
As far as i know, there are no requirements for joining any faction, that only comes up later with advancement.
There are requirements for joining, but they're not skill requirements. The faction's two favored attributes (Agility and Personality for the Thieves Guild) need to both be at a minimum level (30 for the Thieves Guild). Generally, that's not an issue, as starting characters usually don't have attributes below 30, but if you somehow do (perhaps by suffering from a Damage Attribute effect), then that will prevent joining.

The Thieves Guild also has a specific plot element which will prevent joining. If you are a member of the Fighters Guild, and you advance to a certain point and complete a certain quest, the Thieves Guild will refuse to allow you to join. I do not know if that refusal uses the standard dialog text you quoted.

Is it possible that any of those scenarios are occurring in your games?

(also, this may be more relevant to the Support forum)
Right. Regardless, 30 is the minimum that any character could possibly have at character creation. Any race/class combo can join any faction, they just can't advance far. Both characters were a variety of the "Thief", so naturally, they more than met the requirements, and they never joined the Fighters Guild. No damaged attributes either.

Even fiddling with the console, i could not fix this. I could forcefully join the guild and even increase my reputation (to allow advancement), but i could not advance. The NPC reacted as if my skills were too low, even though the requirement is like 10 or 15 in the two or three required skills to advance the first 2-3 ranks. Using "enableracemenu" to essentially reset everything to the starting values fixed it, but what caused it in the first place?

As i said, a very strange "bug". No freaking idea what's causing it. It also happened twice, which means that it's probably reproducible. Also, yeah, support forum, but it's too late now, unless there's a way to transfer it without starting the same thing again. It's not much of a problem, it's just weird.

Aradesh
Posts: 4
Joined: 30 May 2017, 20:00

Re: (Possibly) a weird bug?

Post by Aradesh » 31 May 2017, 14:11

Still not sure what's going on, but i'll blame it on fiddling with the console instead of OpenMW. Seems more likely. Nothing really important, it just weirded me out. I probably broke something by fiddling with it, although fiddling also managed to fix it. Is there a way to "lock" this thread or remove it?

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Ravenwing
Posts: 130
Joined: 02 Jan 2016, 02:51

Re: (Possibly) a weird bug?

Post by Ravenwing » 31 May 2017, 16:26

I would say if we haven't identified the problem, we should continue trying to look into it. I've PM'd Jyby to move this to the Support forum, but I see no reason to freeze the topic unless its completely resolved, and even then, why bother.

I don't really see how fiddling around with the console could break the guild. What console commands where you using prior to trying to join the guild? Even if you were messing around with your skills and attributes, it should still be recognized by everything in the game. Are you positive that your mods do not affect guilds in any way? Perhaps in the ones you created yourself, you inadvertently messed something up. Have they been cleaned?

Aradesh
Posts: 4
Joined: 30 May 2017, 20:00

Re: (Possibly) a weird bug?

Post by Aradesh » 31 May 2017, 19:10

Ravenwing wrote:
31 May 2017, 16:26
I would say if we haven't identified the problem, we should continue trying to look into it. I've PM'd Jyby to move this to the Support forum, but I see no reason to freeze the topic unless its completely resolved, and even then, why bother.

I don't really see how fiddling around with the console could break the guild. What console commands where you using prior to trying to join the guild? Even if you were messing around with your skills and attributes, it should still be recognized by everything in the game. Are you positive that your mods do not affect guilds in any way? Perhaps in the ones you created yourself, you inadvertently messed something up. Have they been cleaned?
Well, i now believe that it must've been the console, because resetting everything via "enableracemenu" fixes whatever caused it in the first place. It might not have even been a bug in the first place, but simply something weird i did. Something related to changing stats.

I'm certain that the mods are not at fault here because they're just simple Construction Set tweaks. As i said, minor things like changing Chain Pauldrons from "heavy" to "medium", moving Turn Undead to Restoration, moving Demoralize from Mysticism to Illusion and such. Texture/mesh replacers do not affect anything of sorts either, and i've only got a few tiny ones.

I'll look a bit more into it. Partially because it's mysterious, partially because i don't want people to believe that there really is a "bug" of sorts if there isn't one as i at first believed.

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Jyby
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Re: (Possibly) a weird bug?

Post by Jyby » 01 Jun 2017, 01:44

Moved to Support
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