Scene Toolbar Icon Request

Involved development of the OpenMW construction set.
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Shnatsel
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Re: Scene Toolbar Icon Request

Post by Shnatsel » 14 Nov 2014, 23:23

The contrast on the pathgrid pic looks too harsh, I'll probably soften it if blue pathgrid markers are no-go.
bridge.png
bridge.png (1.64 KiB) Viewed 3008 times
terrain.png
terrain.png (2.34 KiB) Viewed 3008 times
water.png
water.png (1.2 KiB) Viewed 3008 times
pathgrid.png
pathgrid.png (823 Bytes) Viewed 3008 times
fog.png
fog.png (825 Bytes) Viewed 3008 times

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Zini
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Re: Scene Toolbar Icon Request

Post by Zini » 15 Nov 2014, 09:46

The only solution I'm aware of is making the pathgrid stop triangles blue, both in the icon and the editor. They are quite illegible in the editor itself: http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/100159
Should I open a bug about it?
With "in the editor" you mean they are difficult to see for people with some types of limited vision? But wouldn't that depend on the background? I don't see how we can do something about that, because there can be all kinds of backgrounds.

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cc9cii
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Re: Scene Toolbar Icon Request

Post by cc9cii » 15 Nov 2014, 23:41

I actually got blue markers made for OpenCS but not submitted yet (also noticed that TES-CS uses blue it seems)

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Shnatsel
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Re: Scene Toolbar Icon Request

Post by Shnatsel » 20 Nov 2014, 04:19

Zini wrote:With "in the editor" you mean they are difficult to see for people with some types of limited vision? But wouldn't that depend on the background? I don't see how we can do something about that, because there can be all kinds of backgrounds.
No, it would not depend on the background. Pure colors (red or blue) of this saturation are just not encountered in Morrowind and are hardly conceivable in other scenarios. Even though giving the pathgrid nodes an outline could help with background distinction, I can't see that as a huge issue.

The problem with colorblindness accessibility here is that the pathgrid nodes are difficult to indistinguish from pathgrid connectors. It does not muck up the pathgrid completely, but does make it much harder to work with. Again, here's a demo using a colorblindness simulator: http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/100159

Making the pathgrid nodes blue would solve the issue. It seems that the original CS had blue path grid indeed, so I'll update the icon with blue nodes as time allows, and then probably make the final renders.

Speaking of the final renders! So we've decided what we're going with for the toggle icons, see demo right above. So that's settled. What about the composite icon displaying the current status?

I understand the default would look like this:
default.png
default.png (3.31 KiB) Viewed 2857 times
As for the altered state, I think it would be best to show the current state compared to the default. For example, the icon for disabled fog would look like this:
default_without_fog_composite.png
default_without_fog_composite.png (2.92 KiB) Viewed 2857 times
This has several advantages. First, you can easily tell that you have disabled something by the presence of the vertical separator, which is kinda hard to miss (well it is easy to miss in the latest iteration, but I will fix that! blue markers should fix it too). Second, it is easy to tell what exactly you have changed without having to remember the original state in detail (particularly relevant for fog). Any objections?

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Zini
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Re: Scene Toolbar Icon Request

Post by Zini » 20 Nov 2014, 09:40

The problem with colorblindness accessibility here is that the pathgrid nodes are difficult to indistinguish from pathgrid connectors.
Still don't see much of a problem. One is a pyramid-like shape and the other is a pair of lines.

But anyway, I have no objection to changing the colour. We should do it consistently though (OpenCS, OpenCS icons and OpenMW). Having different colours in different parts of the project will just confuse people. Please file the appropriate issues on our tracker.

First however we should check how the blue markers work in the icons. We have a bluish background there. Might cause problems.
As for the altered state, I think it would be best to show the current state compared to the default. For example, the icon for disabled fog would look like this:
I am still not convinced about the red line. Might look odd when used in the toolbar. Could we have a test render without it to see if we are losing functionality that way?

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Shnatsel
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Re: Scene Toolbar Icon Request

Post by Shnatsel » 21 Nov 2014, 22:34

Zini wrote:First however we should check how the blue markers work in the icons. We have a bluish background there. Might cause problems.
Seems to work fine, even in my simple test without an outline:
pathgrid.png
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water+pathgrid.png
water+pathgrid.png (1.59 KiB) Viewed 2775 times
terrain+water+pathgrid.png
terrain+water+pathgrid.png (2.89 KiB) Viewed 2775 times
terrain+bridge+water+pathgrid.png
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default.png
default.png (3.29 KiB) Viewed 2774 times
This does improve performance for the colorblind 8% of males dramatically and also makes the pathgrid less in-your-face.
Last edited by Shnatsel on 21 Nov 2014, 22:50, edited 1 time in total.

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Shnatsel
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Re: Scene Toolbar Icon Request

Post by Shnatsel » 21 Nov 2014, 22:47

Zini wrote:I am still not convinced about the red line. Might look odd when used in the toolbar. Could we have a test render without it to see if we are losing functionality that way?
So here's the default state of the icon:
default.png
default.png (3.29 KiB) Viewed 2774 times
When the user disables fog, we show one of these:
terrain+bridge+water+pathgrid.png
terrain+bridge+water+pathgrid.png (3.11 KiB) Viewed 2774 times
terrain+bridge+water+pathgrid_status_icon.png
terrain+bridge+water+pathgrid_status_icon.png (3.26 KiB) Viewed 2774 times
The separator might need a slightly different color to make it more visible and less pointlessly saturated, but that's the idea.

Taking it a step further:
terrain+water+pathgrid.png
terrain+water+pathgrid.png (2.89 KiB) Viewed 2774 times
terrain+water+pathgrid_status_icon.png
terrain+water+pathgrid_status_icon.png (3.17 KiB) Viewed 2774 times
I could export the entire suite for your consideration if needed once all the other aspects of the icon are finalized.

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Zini
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Re: Scene Toolbar Icon Request

Post by Zini » 22 Nov 2014, 12:09

Sorry, I don't get the part about the status/no-status variants. Are these different versions?

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Shnatsel
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Re: Scene Toolbar Icon Request

Post by Shnatsel » 22 Nov 2014, 18:30

I'd better show them in context than try to explain.

So here's how the default view mode would be depicted in OpenCS with my icon:

Image

I suggest that when the user disables fog, the icon should look like this:

Image

And so on for other disabled components (sorry for not updating the 3D rendering):

Image
Image

The alternative way to depict states, without the red line, would look like this for disabled fog:

Image

The variant with the red line has several advantages. First, you can easily tell that you have disabled something by the presence of the vertical separator, which is kinda hard to miss. Second, it is easy to tell what exactly you have changed without having to remember the original state in detail (particularly relevant for fog, see pic above).

Are you convinced about the red line now? :)

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Zini
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Re: Scene Toolbar Icon Request

Post by Zini » 22 Nov 2014, 18:50

Okay, now I understand. With "default" you mean all elements switched on. Now that I see it the red line doesn't look as bad as I thought. If you upload these icons, then I will write a modified toolbar button for it tomorrow and give it a try.

btw. It would helpful if you could contribute your icons via git/github. Its not absolutely necessary, but it is fairly easy and would make simply the whole process a bit.

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