3D scene: Navigation modes

Involved development of the OpenMW construction set.
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Zini
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3D scene: Navigation modes

Post by Zini » 10 Nov 2013, 12:36

Since we have OGRE integration in master now (still needs some fixing), its time to start discussing navigation modes.

We will have a single button that shows the currently selected navigation mode and when clicked on, will pop up a horizontal list of buttons that represent all navigation modes (widget already implemented).

Note that this is not the same as the editing mode. We will handle editing separately. For now we should only concern us with how to move the camera.

Suggestions welcome.

And another note: If you want to suggest something, please don't just say "like in application-X", because not everyone will be familiar with applicationX.

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Okulo
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Re: 3D scene: Navigation modes

Post by Okulo » 11 Nov 2013, 07:53

I guess I'll kick it off then?

Roll scrollwheel - Zoom in/out
Hold scrollwheel - move camera around on X/Y axis
Shift-hold scrollwheel - move camera around on Z axis

Alternatively: WASD controls and scrollwheel as in the Morrowind free flying cam.

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Zini
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Re: 3D scene: Navigation modes

Post by Zini » 11 Nov 2013, 09:29

Roll scrollwheel - Zoom in/out
That would be moving the camera forwards/backwards, actually.
Hold scrollwheel - move camera around on X/Y axis
Like panning? Stay at the same orientation but shift the camera along the (local) X/Y axis (within the plane that is perpendicular to the camera's viewing direction)?
Shift-hold scrollwheel - move camera around on Z axis
Like rolling? I am not entirely sure what you mean by this.
Alternatively: WASD controls and scrollwheel as in the Morrowind free flying cam.
What would the scrollwheel do? In MW it moves the camera towards/away from the player character. But we don't have a player character. We only have a camera.

Tolchock
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Re: 3D scene: Navigation modes

Post by Tolchock » 11 Nov 2013, 14:37

I suggest that someone bring up this issue (and the lighting mode one) in the OpenMW thread on the official forums. I am sure the people there could provide useful input.

(As for me, my limited experience is with the tesCS, which was pretty painful. I'd love WASD for navigation, but am not sure what camera controls are optimal.)

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Osidian
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Re: 3D scene: Navigation modes

Post by Osidian » 11 Nov 2013, 15:25

Is this to discuss how to navigate the 3D scene as we are editing it? Or is navigation mode its own thing and just a way to look around the 3D scene without editing and without entering the game?

If it's just a way to see stuff around, WASD+mouse is probably pretty good, but if it's to navigate the 3D scene while editing it, it probably won't work because the mouse can't just be used to move the camera around.

Sorry about the confusion, but if someone could please clear that up... :oops:

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Zini
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Re: 3D scene: Navigation modes

Post by Zini » 11 Nov 2013, 15:44

We are discussing what modes of moving around and turning the camera in the 3D scene should be implemented. Editing tools will be a different topic.

Regarding WASD: Well we could try to allow mouse turning when a specific mouse button is pressed. However the question is if this won't make us run out of mouse buttons (we will require some for editing too, after all).

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Zini
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Re: 3D scene: Navigation modes

Post by Zini » 11 Nov 2013, 15:47

That is an interesting point: How many buttons will we need for editing? I suspect it will be 2 (including some modifier keys), which will leave only one button for navigation. That means we could have a dedicated WASD mode, but we can not combine it with any other mode (i.e. you can't move around via the mouse while in WASD mode).

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sirherrbatka
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Re: 3D scene: Navigation modes

Post by sirherrbatka » 11 Nov 2013, 15:59

Oh man, this sounds ankward.

I think we should rather think about simply using navigations schema other than WSAD, at least for now. Maybe something like in old games: dedicated keys for look up, look down and turn lef, turn right (pre wsad era). Later we can do whatever we want to, even allowing gamepads and joysticks to be used with OpenCS but i don't think that attempt to mimic fps controls in such way (not allowing to be combined with other modes, and you have to press mouse button to turn) is really a good idea.

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Osidian
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Re: 3D scene: Navigation modes

Post by Osidian » 11 Nov 2013, 16:01

My suggestions:
Shift+Mouse - rotate the camera around itself
Middle mouse button+Mouse - camera orbits around selected objects
Space+Mouse - Move within the plane perpendicular to the viewing direction

Scrollwheel - forward/backwards (fast)
'V'+mouse movement - the same as above but slower and more precise.

'C' - center on selected objects

Some key to zoom out and show the entire interior/exterior cell (something out of the way, to avoid acidentally zooming all out like the 'Home' key)


I think it's very important for the sensibility of each navigation action to be editable by the user. Some people like to move around very fast, others prefer precision. When working in big scale you probably want to move around quickly, but when working in small details being precise is more important and eficient.

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Okulo
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Re: 3D scene: Navigation modes

Post by Okulo » 11 Nov 2013, 16:07

Lemme clarify... I wrote that post early in the morning so I got some shit mixed up. :P

Say you're looking at the Census Office door in Seyda Neen and need to go to Vivec. You roll the wheel down to zoom out (which kind of looks like you're moving backwards, but that's not the same thing, because watch:) and then hold the wheel button (and move the mouse) to pan/tilt. Now you're hovering a bit higher above the land, looking down on Seyda Neen.

If Vivec is not in sight, travel across the land using shift and holding down the scrollwheel. Once it's in sight, mouse over Vivec and roll up to zoom in on the spot under your cursor. Rotate your view by holding the wheel and moving your mouse left and right.

Another way to say it: Your camera is always looking at a certain "central point" around which it spins. It's your 0.0.0, where all your axes cross. Around that point is a "sphere". You move your camera across the surface of that sphere by click-and-holding the wheel (thereby pitching and panning around that central point). It only uses the wheel and one modifier key; shouldn't be too complicated to get the hang of.

All this is built around having the scroll wheel controlling the camera, of course. (Come and think of it, it should be familiar to those who have played simulation/management games; they usually use camera controls not unlike these.)

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