Categories? And some little suggestions

Involved development of the OpenMW construction set.
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Wollibeebee
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Joined: 22 Mar 2013, 05:31

Categories? And some little suggestions

Post by Wollibeebee » 30 Apr 2013, 11:43

Hey fellas,

Fairly active modder here, and I'm looking forwards do using your CS. But there's something I'd really like to see;

Object Categories:
Alright, so you all have probably seen the latest CS/CK. But I'm not so much keen for that system as I am for merely a separate window; the object window could be toggled between the vanilla groupings, and a customs categories (in the same way the render window toggles between itself and the preview window.) In the vanilla groupings right-clicking a single object or a group (any time of object, static, misc, even leveled) will open a menu which will allow the modder to add that selection to a category of their choice. Categories could also have sub-groups, so, for example: If I'm working on P:C, I can toggle over to the P:C category I've made, where I can find sub-groups for exteriors, containers, etc. This would be useful as I would no longer have to scroll around to find both P:C added imperial statics, and vanilla imperial statics, as they're just besides each other.
Of course, items should still be added to the objects window, because that will be what decideds what type of object they are.

Another suggestion I have (sorry...) is that I'd like to be able to toggle between data files. Currently I have 5-7 different CS shortcuts on my desktop, just to ensure I don't get models mixed up between projects (I know there's easier ways, this just works best for me because I do a lot of modeling and texturing.) So if I had only a single CS that I can toggle between data files (ESPs and ESMs, BSA, etc.) it would be fantastic. Also, the previously mentioned categories could still be saved between different data files. Although the missing objects may be an issue...

And lastly... Nicknames. A lot of the time when working on something finding a certain mesh can be a pain, even if the category idea were to be used. Sometimes, due to the 32 character limit (which includes the folders address...) it's often tricky to find the right building mesh when it's ID is TR_HS_NR_04_07. So If I could add my own nickname to it, which wouldn't affect the actual ID, it would be pretty awesome. Maybe this change could only be made in the Categories window?

Anyway, I hope these haven't already been suggested, I only looked through a couple of threads. I hope they're reasonable!

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Zini
Posts: 5134
Joined: 06 Aug 2011, 15:16

Re: Categories? And some little suggestions

Post by Zini » 30 Apr 2013, 14:13

You are approach OpenCS from the wrong angle, namely as an incremental improvement of the TES-CS. That is not what we are doing. We started with throwing out pretty much every single Ui and workflow concept of the old CS. If anything in the OpenCS ends up looking like the TES-CS we most likely did it wrong.

As such your suggestions don't really apply. The things you are trying to improve simple do not exist in our CS (or at least not in the same form). However you have correctly identified several usability issues in the old CS. Our plans take all of them into consideration (you can find some information on that in the editor archive section of this forum). Some of it will be post-1.0 improvements though.

Tarius
Posts: 574
Joined: 24 Oct 2011, 19:29

Re: Categories? And some little suggestions

Post by Tarius » 30 Apr 2013, 18:09

Zini wrote:You are approach OpenCS from the wrong angle, namely as an incremental improvement of the TES-CS. That is not what we are doing. We started with throwing out pretty much every single Ui and workflow concept of the old CS. If anything in the OpenCS ends up looking like the TES-CS we most likely did it wrong.

As such your suggestions don't really apply. The things you are trying to improve simple do not exist in our CS (or at least not in the same form). However you have correctly identified several usability issues in the old CS. Our plans take all of them into consideration (you can find some information on that in the editor archive section of this forum). Some of it will be post-1.0 improvements though.
Zini knows all...
I am a bigger fan of tons of control rather than taking the "user-friendly" approach.
-Okulo

wheybags
Posts: 202
Joined: 21 Dec 2012, 19:41

Re: Categories? And some little suggestions

Post by wheybags » 30 Apr 2013, 22:36

I have a small question/suggestion about the editor actually.

We should be able to use wasd/mouse like an fps in the render window, like in hammer.
Would be verrrrry useful.

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Zini
Posts: 5134
Joined: 06 Aug 2011, 15:16

Re: Categories? And some little suggestions

Post by Zini » 01 May 2013, 12:51

It is obvious that the 3D navigation as implemented in TES-CS is insufficient. This is actually an area where I do not know it all. I implemented a 3D navigation system once, that worked very well. Unfortunately it was so complex, that even I couldn't remember how to use it, after I hadn't touched it for two weeks. So I had to scrap the whole thing. I guess it wouldn't hurt to have a look at other editors to see what options there are. And an extended form of WASD definitely sound desirable. However these are details that we can take care of once we actually have scene rendering. Right now we don't even have OGRE integration, which is a problem of very substantial complexity.

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sirherrbatka
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Joined: 07 Aug 2011, 17:21

Re: Categories? And some little suggestions

Post by sirherrbatka » 01 May 2013, 15:53

Can we consider something blender like for 3d navigation?

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Zini
Posts: 5134
Joined: 06 Aug 2011, 15:16

Re: Categories? And some little suggestions

Post by Zini » 01 May 2013, 17:55

Consider: Definitely. Use: I don't know. We will have to wait what the outcome of these considerations are.

Tarius
Posts: 574
Joined: 24 Oct 2011, 19:29

Re: Categories? And some little suggestions

Post by Tarius » 03 May 2013, 22:39

Zini wrote:It is obvious that the 3D navigation as implemented in TES-CS is insufficient. This is actually an area where I do not know it all. I implemented a 3D navigation system once, that worked very well. Unfortunately it was so complex, that even I couldn't remember how to use it, after I hadn't touched it for two weeks. So I had to scrap the whole thing. I guess it wouldn't hurt to have a look at other editors to see what options there are. And an extended form of WASD definitely sound desirable. However these are details that we can take care of once we actually have scene rendering. Right now we don't even have OGRE integration, which is a problem of very substantial complexity.
Look a something like 3ds max for that.
Blender is similiar but not exactly the same.
I am a bigger fan of tons of control rather than taking the "user-friendly" approach.
-Okulo

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SGMonkey
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Joined: 07 May 2012, 01:16

Re: Categories? And some little suggestions

Post by SGMonkey » 14 May 2013, 23:39

It'd be nice if you could take some features from the UDK. Navigation around view ports in UDK is better than anything else ive used. The content browser is excellent, all search functions are built in to it and you get instant results.

Manipulation of assets and groups of assets is done better than anything else ive used too. Especially compared to any version of the CS.

If the OpenCS ends up anything like the UDK editor then you know you're doing something right.

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Rhys
Posts: 113
Joined: 06 Aug 2011, 01:51
Location: Australia

Re: Categories? And some little suggestions

Post by Rhys » 15 May 2013, 04:18

Morrowind has a larger world than most built in Blender/3dsmax.

I believe a levitation/FPS style WASD is what's needed for a large part of navigation, but you need the ability to rotate view around particular objects/selection turntable style (MMB).

I would envisage;
Turntable Mode (normal always active) (somewhat like Blender etc):
-MMB rotates camera around pivot point turntable style
-Tapping RMB pans camera to center at cursor target (with a smooth transition) and sets pivot point at that location/depth
-Holding shift and MMB pans camera
-Panning pans pivot point with the camera
-Scroll= zoom

Fly Mode
-Holding RMB activates Fly mode
-Mouse aims camera
-Standard WASD movement
-Ctrl/shift = slower/faster
-Upon release of RMB, pivot point is set with depth 5m in front of camera. (or you could have smart adaptive depth depending on distance to objects in front)
^^This ensures turntable pivot point is always somewhere sane^^


And then you need shortcuts to align camera to specific orientations - up/down/NSEW..... Centered around the pivot point

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