Record Modification Status

Involved development of the OpenMW construction set.
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sirherrbatka
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Joined: 07 Aug 2011, 17:21

Re: Record Modification Status

Post by sirherrbatka » 23 Mar 2013, 12:20

- Record exists in base only. It has not yet been modified in the edited plugin.
- Record exists in base and has been modified in the edited plugin. This is indicated by a "*" in the original CS in the ID column.
- Record did not exist in the base and has been added in the edited plugin. This is also indicated by a "*" in the original CS.
- Record did exist in the base but has been deleted in the edited plugin. This is indicated by "DELETED" in the original CS.
I think I will make icons for it rather soon so I want to put my visiual metaphors propositions.
Record exists in base only. It has not yet been modified in the edited plugin.
Square. Or maybe nothing
- Record exists in base and has been modified in the edited plugin. This is indicated by a "*" in the original CS in the ID column.
Crossed =. Or perhaps a ring.
- Record did not exist in the base and has been added in the edited plugin. This is also indicated by a "*" in the original CS.
Plus.
- Record did exist in the base but has been deleted in the edited plugin. This is indicated by "DELETED" in the original CS.
Minus.

Opinion please.

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Zini
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Joined: 06 Aug 2011, 15:16

Re: Record Modification Status

Post by Zini » 23 Mar 2013, 13:11

I think I will make icons for it rather soon so I want to put my visiual metaphors propositions.
That is a good idea, because we need these icons for this.
Square. Or maybe nothing
Both would work.
Crossed =. Or perhaps a ring.
Not convinced that either of these would work.
Plus
Agreed.
Minus
Not so sure about that. Minus indicates that something was removed. But would people associate that with a record being deleted?

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sirherrbatka
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Re: Record Modification Status

Post by sirherrbatka » 23 Mar 2013, 13:21

Not convinced that either of these would work.
Then star, maybe?
Not so sure about that. Minus indicates that something was removed. But would people associate that with a record being deleted?
I can make a trash icon instead, but I think that +/- are in fact easier to understand.

Chris
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Joined: 04 Sep 2011, 08:33

Re: Record Modification Status

Post by Chris » 23 Mar 2013, 17:43

Not sure if it would help any, but deleting records is seen as a very bad thing to do when modding. When you delete a record it's no longer physically present for the running game, so any actions on those records become undefined (vanilla tends to crash, but even if we can catch it there's little we can do that makes sense; it's like trying to gracefully handle accessing a valid pointer that isn't). The issue is so bad that the various TES*Edit tools will warn about deleted records and provides an automated 'undelete and disable' function, which removes the deleted flag and marks the record as disabled so it won't appear in game.

In that vein, IMO, any record that "did exist in the base but has been deleted in the edited plugin" should be eye-grabbingly visible with a clear warning attached.

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sirherrbatka
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Re: Record Modification Status

Post by sirherrbatka » 23 Mar 2013, 18:33

maybe a red frame around the whole record on list for removed entry?

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Zini
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Re: Record Modification Status

Post by Zini » 23 Mar 2013, 18:54

Then star, maybe?
Sounds reasonable.
I can make a trash icon instead, but I think that +/- are in fact easier to understand.
Trash icon might work. Or maybe just an X?

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sirherrbatka
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Re: Record Modification Status

Post by sirherrbatka » 23 Mar 2013, 18:56

+ vs x does not look good to me. I already done first version of status icons (well, it was easy and fast) with + and -. I think that we should stick with this for now and change if some will find it bad.

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Zini
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Re: Record Modification Status

Post by Zini » 23 Mar 2013, 19:02

Chris wrote:Not sure if it would help any, but deleting records is seen as a very bad thing to do when modding. When you delete a record it's no longer physically present for the running game, so any actions on those records become undefined (vanilla tends to crash, but even if we can catch it there's little we can do that makes sense; it's like trying to gracefully handle accessing a valid pointer that isn't). The issue is so bad that the various TES*Edit tools will warn about deleted records and provides an automated 'undelete and disable' function, which removes the deleted flag and marks the record as disabled so it won't appear in game.

In that vein, IMO, any record that "did exist in the base but has been deleted in the edited plugin" should be eye-grabbingly visible with a clear warning attached.
Obviously a modder who deletes a record is responsible for removing any references to it. At least for the loaded content files OpenCS will provide an error message from the verifier in this case. For plugins beyond these files, there is obviously nothing the CS can do. But again, that is just one of an infinite number of cases where a modification to a plugin can cause other stuff to break. It is simply impossible to do anything about most of these cases and IMHO even considering dealing with it on the editor level is an utter waste of time.

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Zini
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Joined: 06 Aug 2011, 15:16

Re: Record Modification Status

Post by Zini » 23 Mar 2013, 19:02

sirherrbatka wrote:+ vs x does not look good to me. I already done first version of status icons (well, it was easy and fast) with + and -. I think that we should stick with this for now and change if some will find it bad.
We can try it. At this stage there is a lot of room for experimentation.

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Greendogo
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Re: Record Modification Status

Post by Greendogo » 23 Mar 2013, 19:21

Possibly similar to one of these?:
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