Poisons mechanics in OpenMW

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akortunov
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Poisons mechanics in OpenMW

Post by akortunov » 25 Jul 2018, 16:55

Source code: https://github.com/akortunov/openmw/tree/poison

Savegame format is changed: added string fields to store poison ID for weapons and projectiles.
The main idea: treat potions without positive effects as posions and apply them to equipped weapon when consuming.
Also alters potion creation: if there are no positive effects, do not decrease power of negative effects of created poison.
You can poison weapon (inluding bows and crossbows) only before combat (due to balance issues), so throwing weapon is more powerful now.
Poison applies only for first strike with given weapon. Applied poisons with same ID do not stack, as spells.
About GUI:
1. There is a poison indicator on HUD, which shows first effect of poison:
Image
On attached screenshot, equipped sword uses pyroil tar as a poison, and first attack will add "20 pt. fire damage per 60 seconds" effect to target.
2. Poison effects are shown on the weapon tooltip.

As alternative (and simplier) solution we can implement something similar to TESO:
1. Add a separate equipment slot for poisons.
2. When you hit with melee weapons or launch projectile, check if PC has a poison equipped.
If yes, apply the poison and remove 1 bottle from equipped stack.
The only thing is I am afraid of with this solution - is the balance.
Probably we will need to add a cooldown between poison usages (one attack per 30 seconds, for example). Also we can make indicator semi-transparent or grayscale during cooldown.
Any ideas?

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kuyondo
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Joined: 29 Mar 2016, 17:45

Re: Poisons mechanics in OpenMW

Post by kuyondo » 25 Jul 2018, 17:25

I am interested in trying out this feature, so I can give much better feedback. If giving an idea now, I would miss some aspects of this mechanic. I believe however, your idea is quite good:
akortunov wrote:
25 Jul 2018, 16:55
As alternative (and simplier) solution we can implement something similar to TESO:
1. Add a separate equipment slot for poisons.
2. When you hit with melee weapons or launch projectile, check if PC has a poison equipped.
If yes, apply the poison and remove 1 bottle from equipped stack.
The only thing is I am afraid of with this solution - is the balance.
Probably we will need to add a cooldown between poison usages (one attack per 30 seconds, for example). Also we can make indicator semi-transparent or grayscale during cooldown.
By the way, can anyone pinpoint the way to install this fork? I downloaded the zip file in github, and no idea what to do next. A total newb at this.

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akortunov
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Location: Samara, Russian Federation
Github profile: https://github.com/akortunov

Re: Poisons mechanics in OpenMW

Post by akortunov » 26 Jul 2018, 06:38

kuyondo wrote:
25 Jul 2018, 17:25
By the way, can anyone pinpoint the way to install this fork? I downloaded the zip file in github, and no idea what to do next. A total newb at this.
It is a source code. You need a development setup to compile it.

Alternative implementation of poisons, based on new equipment slot for poisons:
https://github.com/akortunov/openmw/tree/poison_equip
No cooldowns and AI yet.

P.S. I did not create a pull request since I dow not know which implementation is better, and if it will be ever accepted.

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Zini
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Joined: 06 Aug 2011, 15:16

Re: Poisons mechanics in OpenMW

Post by Zini » 26 Jul 2018, 09:35

I like the idea (the way you implemented it), but that is a post 1.0 feature and there must be a way to configure it from a content file (new GMST at least).

I suggest to give it some more thought (may there are other reasonable configuration opportunities ?) and then add it to the stage1 document (can go under misc).

erretel
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Joined: 29 Jan 2018, 23:20

Re: Poisons mechanics in OpenMW

Post by erretel » 27 Jul 2018, 17:59

Shouldn't stuff like this better be left to mods?
It seems an odd thing to be in the base game, especially since it greatly change one of the mechanics of the game in a way that is not necessarily a strict, objective improvement, but instead a different take on the mechanic.
See also how BTB's Game Improvements dealt with alchemy, in which the negative effects are a challenge to overcome for the alchemist.

Chris
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Joined: 04 Sep 2011, 08:33

Re: Poisons mechanics in OpenMW

Post by Chris » 28 Jul 2018, 02:27

I personally think there should be a more flexible way to define poisons, besides having just all-negative effects. The idea of poisons that includes minor positive effects (similar to potions that include minor negative effects) would be nice, for instance.

NullCascade
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Re: Poisons mechanics in OpenMW

Post by NullCascade » 28 Jul 2018, 07:14

Chris wrote:
28 Jul 2018, 02:27
I personally think there should be a more flexible way to define poisons, besides having just all-negative effects. The idea of poisons that includes minor positive effects (similar to potions that include minor negative effects) would be nice, for instance.
Greatness7's Poison Crafting MWSE-lua mod does this. Basically your alchemy apparatus reduces positive effects instead of negative effects when poison crafting.

+1 for leaving this to mods. Don't make new hardcoded mechanics in OpenMW that require recompiling. Make OpenMW powerful enough to support new mechanics via mods like the original engine has.
MWSE 2.x lead.

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kuyondo
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Re: Poisons mechanics in OpenMW

Post by kuyondo » 28 Jul 2018, 08:21

Im in favor of leaving this mechanic configurable through mods. OpenMW should focus on being able to provide more flexibility in modding. Of course, the foundation is already laid, but let the little things be decided by modders. such as being able to apply even positive effects on weapons, and treat them as "poisons".... or what kind of magic effects are permissible to be applied as "poisons".. complex yes, but flexible is better.

(I can sense chaos ahead)

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Zini
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Joined: 06 Aug 2011, 15:16

Re: Poisons mechanics in OpenMW

Post by Zini » 28 Jul 2018, 09:57

Of course we should make this feature configurable. That's why I wrote
I suggest to give it some more thought (may there are other reasonable configuration opportunities ?) and then add it to the stage1 document (can go under misc).
But we still need to provide support for it in OpenMW, so mod developers can add a poison mechanic.

erretel
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Joined: 29 Jan 2018, 23:20

Re: Poisons mechanics in OpenMW

Post by erretel » 28 Jul 2018, 22:25

kuyondo wrote:
28 Jul 2018, 08:21
Im in favor of leaving this mechanic configurable through mods. OpenMW should focus on being able to provide more flexibility in modding. Of course, the foundation is already laid, but let the little things be decided by modders. such as being able to apply even positive effects on weapons, and treat them as "poisons".... or what kind of magic effects are permissible to be applied as "poisons".. complex yes, but flexible is better.

(I can sense chaos ahead)
A solution would be to treat potions and poisons as separate things. Potion ALWAYS get drunk when used and poisons ALWAYS get applied to the wielded weapons.
When the player create a potion, he get to choose if he want to make a potion or a poison or a throwable or whatever, kinda like what happen with spellmaking and the whole self/touch/target.
You could even have different magnitudes multiplier for different types, so poisons could be generally weaker compared to potions, to placate the balance doubts of akortunov, without having to resort to cooldowns.
You could still keep the TESO equipping poisons instead of applying them, I think that's a very smart solution.

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