openmw.org

Eight hours is ridiculous, sorry. Glad the documentation isn't broken now.

8 hours includes installing Windows7, installing all updates, installing MSVC... why is that so painful? Ask Microsoft, not OpenMW.

Let's cut through the bullshit.

No one is contradicting you, development of OpenMW on windows is rough but has gotten better and is always improving. My experiment was several years ago and we've gotten better since then. The turn-around time is now about 25 minutes but that is with libraries pre-compiled and a VM already instanced and ready to run. The vast majority of developers on OpenMW are non-windows developers so they are less burdened by (and don't feel the pain of) working with Windows.

However acting like an asshole doesn't help your cause here. I'm not saying you are one, but how you have handled yourself here in the forums is childish and I'm calling you out for it. You haven't done anything to help the situation aside from complaining.

I thought perhaps you were just bent out of shape from Zini's post 1.0 proposes that would make MWSE obsolete. That could possibly explain your aggressive (and openly hostile) behaviour towards OpenMW.

I mean, Windows users have it made... they actually have Morrowind, tricked out and rocking while the poor Mac and Linux users have to actually build something from scratch just to play Morrowind. This could explain why there is dearth of Windows developers, because Morrowind.exe already exists. If it already exists on Windows, what is the point? The driving force is coming from non-Windows developers for a reason.

The potential for OpenMW on Windows is great, but that also mean breaking some compatibility with windows-centric mods in the process. That means there are and will be mods that are incompatible. OpenMW plans on moving on beyond Morrowind...

You do realize that in doing this, you'll make OpenMW not work on non Windows systems which is kinda the reason why we use platform agnostic libraries to do the job right?

I know two other Windows developers working in corporate game development environments who would like to join the effort but can't due to the way OpenMW builds and its dependencies. I want it to more or less build painlessly with a fresh Visual Studio install, click compile and done. This isn't the case now. It's trivial to understand how hours upon hours of setting up build environments demotivate many otherwise hardened and experienced C++ Windows game developers.

Why DirectX12 and not just do Vulkan? Or just wait around a bit and wait for OSG's Vulkan implementation?

As I said, I have no intention of touching the rendering engine at this point in time. Vulkan is rather undocumented and with its similarity to DX12 (regarding low level hardware access ), most developers wont switch. Why switching when DX12 works just fine ? Just so that it works on an class of operating systems with 1.5 % desktop usage ? Yes, I know there is OSX as well...

We would love to have these potential developers come here and post. What's stopping them?

How can OpenMW make the lives of Windows developers easier without sacrificing OpenMW platform agnosticism?

The turn-around time is 25m from the moment someone sends a pull request to the moment there are binaries available for testing on AppVeyor?

One can just use the same powershell scripts to get the same result, the libraries already built and just need to be downloaded.

psi29a wrote: ↑07 Jun 2018, 11:33 One can just use the same powershell scripts to get the same result, the libraries already built and just need to be downloaded.

Can we pack dependencies to NuGet packages? That would make developer's life easier.

Just going to respond to a certain point - the vanilla engine is actually incredibly annoying, it's not really a point for Windows users.

Send a PR!

Why NuGet and not MS's official package manager thingy?

wareya wrote: ↑07 Jun 2018, 11:43 Just going to respond to a certain point - the vanilla engine is actually incredibly annoying, it's not really a point for Windows users.

Fair enough... but I've been waiting a long time to finally play Morrowind through. (My problem, not yours.)

The 8 hours was mostly spent installing windows from scratch and setting up a dev environment, which has nothing to do with OpenMW. Having the libraries pre-compiled or pulled in from NuGet or MS official package manager would make a huge difference once a environment was ready. Only if a windows developer would be brave enough to make that happen...

psi29a wrote: ↑07 Jun 2018, 11:47 Send a PR!

I already have 14 opened PRs.

psi29a wrote: ↑07 Jun 2018, 11:47 Why NuGet and not MS's official package manager thingy?

I have never used MS's official package manager. Maybe it will be even simplier.
Anyway, it is up to OpenMW developers, which use Windows.

Should be less now, Zini has been merging your PRs.

Which one then for NuGet?

Ideally there should be a script (powershell?) that would pull in all required libs and headers and be able to trigger cmake to create a solution file. I believe this would be the cleanest way?

Currently all automation is done in openmw/CI/