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Re: Poll: Quickload behavior

Posted: 23 Apr 2018, 06:52
by psi29a
Quickload: loading latest save, whatever it is.

OpenMW should be an improvement, not a copy of. ;)

Re: Poll: Quickload behavior

Posted: 23 Apr 2018, 21:00
by Chris
I also think the answers here are a bit loaded. On a Morrowind-focused forum, asking if something should "be like in Morrowind" will obviously get more picks than it otherwise would've, regardless of the question. We'd get a more honest response for preferred behavior if the choices presented were just the actual behavior, and didn't mention which was like vanilla.

Not that we're getting many responses here anyway. 23 is hardly a good sample size.

Re: Poll: Quickload behavior

Posted: 23 Apr 2018, 21:13
by Capostrophic
Yes, sorry. Well, I guess it's too late for changes now.
As I suspected, the distribution is approaching 50:50 anyways, which is *cough* not very helpful.

Re: Poll: Quickload behavior

Posted: 24 Apr 2018, 16:28
by Jemolk
psi29a wrote:
23 Apr 2018, 06:52
Quickload: loading latest save, whatever it is.

OpenMW should be an improvement, not a copy of. ;)
Here's the thing -- that may be an improvement to you and me, but it's not strictly better. Raevol seems to actually like vanilla behavior, and I'm sure he's not the only one. A toggleable option, however, is a strict improvement, and I'm fairly certain it could be implemented, despite still being in the just-starting-to-learn stage of extremely basic programming myself.

Any deviations from vanilla pre-1.0 should be upgrades, yes -- and an option is an upgrade, while this change seems a preference-based sidegrade, which is a problem from where I stand, even if I am in the group whose preferences are catered to by the shift.

Re: Poll: Quickload behavior

Posted: 24 Apr 2018, 22:43
by Chris
Jemolk wrote:
24 Apr 2018, 16:28
Here's the thing -- that may be an improvement to you and me, but it's not strictly better. Raevol seems to actually like vanilla behavior, and I'm sure he's not the only one.
Hence the (unfortunately flawed) poll, to figure out what people actually wanted.
A toggleable option, however, is a strict improvement, and I'm fairly certain it could be implemented, despite still being in the just-starting-to-learn stage of extremely basic programming myself.
Not everything really should be made an option, and making every conflicting behavior an option isn't always an improvement. It not only increases the amount of code to maintain, but also most people don't want to edit config files by hand or won't know the options exists and will just use the defaults, making it largely unused. Trying to make every option visible in some UI will also inevitably lead to the same problem GZDoom is currently experiencing, where there's so many options that people have a hard time finding anything through all the lists and submenus and simply don't bother with any of them except the most egregious. Plus, once an option is added on the belief that some people will want it, it becomes a much harder prospect to remove it if people don't actually need it (how can you really tell if people are using it or not? you'll be stuck with it because people may be using it and you can't prove otherwise without more work).

Re: Poll: Quickload behavior

Posted: 24 Apr 2018, 23:56
by halbe
Chris wrote:
24 Apr 2018, 22:43
Jemolk wrote:
24 Apr 2018, 16:28
Here's the thing -- that may be an improvement to you and me, but it's not strictly better. Raevol seems to actually like vanilla behavior, and I'm sure he's not the only one.
Hence the (unfortunately flawed) poll, to figure out what people actually wanted.
A toggleable option, however, is a strict improvement, and I'm fairly certain it could be implemented, despite still being in the just-starting-to-learn stage of extremely basic programming myself.
Not everything really should be made an option, and making every conflicting behavior an option isn't always an improvement. It not only increases the amount of code to maintain, but also most people don't want to edit config files by hand or won't know the options exists and will just use the defaults, making it largely unused. Trying to make every option visible in some UI will also inevitably lead to the same problem GZDoom is currently experiencing, where there's so many options that people have a hard time finding anything through all the lists and submenus and simply don't bother with any of them except the most egregious. Plus, once an option is added on the belief that some people will want it, it becomes a much harder prospect to remove it if people don't actually need it (how can you really tell if people are using it or not? you'll be stuck with it because people may be using it and you can't prove otherwise without more work).
As someone who voted for vanilla behavior, I'd rather have the current behavior be the only option than there to be an option to use either behavior for this reason. It's something that would best be addressed by dehardcoding so that you can just use a mod that changes the quickload behavior to your preference, and since 99.9% of the time when I quickload my quicksave is my most recent save, this is hardly worth worrying about until OpenMW is dehardcoded in 2090.

Re: Poll: Quickload behavior

Posted: 25 Apr 2018, 06:20
by raevol
I also agree with the "only one option" school of thought, even if it's not my preferred behavior. I agree with halbe, and I feel like we're getting dangerously close to bikeshedding here.

Re: Poll: Quickload behavior

Posted: 25 Apr 2018, 09:23
by Jemolk
All right, fair. Dehardcoding should allow it to be changed in a mod, indeed. In that case, I suppose that for those who primarily use quicksave/quickload, the quicksaves will be the most recent 99% of the time anyway, and for those who prefer hard saves because they're kept indefinitely, the current behavior allows quickloading to be useful still.

Wasn't aware of GZDoom or its current predicament, but that does put a finer point on things. As someone who actually doesn't mind extensive options menus, and even prefers them, it's slightly surprising to me, but oh well. I'm more than capable of admitting I was wrong about this. And it would seem I was definitely very wrong.

Re: Poll: Quickload behavior

Posted: 27 Apr 2018, 03:09
by wareya
Autosaves are a thing.