omwlauncher bugs

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pvdk
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Re: omwlauncher bugs

Post by pvdk » 02 Feb 2015, 04:08

It used to be that you had to double-click to select/unselect plugins in the launcher. Dunno what happened to that, but it kinda made sense at the time I wrote it.

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sjek
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Re: omwlauncher bugs

Post by sjek » 02 Feb 2015, 06:31

Well it's clear and good but selecing and unselecting 30+ mods that way is kinda tedious : )

What it now does at least few days ago is first one have to be selected with double click and rest goes by clicking the mark. Unselecting by just clicking after reseting it outside the white box. That might be inaccurate thought.

update edit: now it works by selecting/deselecting with two clicks on the text area and with one click on the mark
Last edited by sjek on 03 Feb 2015, 22:09, edited 1 time in total.
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dteviot
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Joined: 17 Dec 2014, 20:29

Re: omwlauncher bugs

Post by dteviot » 02 Feb 2015, 20:24

Zini wrote:
A warning at the bottom of the screen could help, but I think there's a good chance that users won't notice it there.
Colour it red? I don't see how a large piece of text popping up can be overlooked.
Are we thinking the same thing?
I'm thinking you're suggesting there's a field at the bottom of the screen that changes its text.
In which case, have a look at this: http://blog.codinghorror.com/treating-user-myopia/

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Zini
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Re: omwlauncher bugs

Post by Zini » 03 Feb 2015, 13:36

No. I am not talking about a field that changes text. I am talking about an empty area that will be filled with text if there is a problem.

Not that would be a problem in the first place. The human eye is drawn to movement. If something changes suddenly that will get the user's attention. Even more so, if something shows up that wasn't there before.

That may fail if the user is confronted with a large amount of visual complexity (as seen in the screenshots shown on the site you linked). In this case the user may filter out everything but the main part of the UI that he is interacting with. But we are very careful about keeping the selector simple and avoid UI clutter. And by placing the warning below the list (or maybe even above?) we keep it immediately adjunct to the main part of the UI.

dteviot
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Re: omwlauncher bugs

Post by dteviot » 06 Feb 2015, 08:02

After much pain and suffering, I've started to make headway with the "two list" content selection page.
A prototype for feedback can be found here:
https://github.com/dteviot/openmw/tree/ ... ontentList

Points to note:
  • Currently only works on one file at a time.
  • Drag and drop is working. (Kind of.)
  • The new buttons (">>" "<<" "up" and "down") are below the lists, not between the two lists. (Basically, it was much easier for me to do this layout. I'll fix up the layout later if we proceed down this path.)
  • Need to change names of items in contentselector.ui to match the new classes. (Will do as part of fixing layout.)
  • Multiselect is NOT supported.
  • Context Menus are not available.
  • ">>" only moves the single selected file to the "Files to Load" view. (Moving any files it depends on will be done later.)
  • "<<" removed file from "Files to Load" view. (Removing any files that depend on it be done later.)
  • Double click on a file in one of the views has same behaviour as clicking ">>" or "<<" button, depending on view that is double clicked.
  • "Up" & "Down" buttons currently do nothing.
  • Buttons are not enabled/disabled based on which view has selected item.
  • Files that have been selected to load are grey'ed out in the "All files" view. (Rather than hidden.)
Issues with code I'm aware of (but would appreciate a second opinion).
  • There's an ugly incestous relationship betwen classes LoadPluginsContentModel, AllPluginsContentModel and ContentSelector that violates the Model/View relationship.
  • In AllPluginsContentModel, I override dropMimeData() and removeRows() to get the desired Drag/Drop behaviour. (Basically, the All Files view ignores any drop operations.) I'm not sure this was the best way to solve the problem.
  • I need to delete all the "Checked" item logic that is no longer needed.
Issues with code I'm aware of (and don't need to be reminded of)
  • I need to delete all the "Checked" item logic that is no longer needed.

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scrawl
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Re: omwlauncher bugs

Post by scrawl » 06 Feb 2015, 12:48

Kinda saw it coming. But I prefer the single list. This takes up too much space IMO, both horizontally and vertically.

Here's a screenshot for anyone too lazy to build the branch.
lists.png
Original
lists2.png
In what way does this fix the single-click confusion issue that Zini describes? You can still select an item, and assume that the file will be loaded, even though it won't be.

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Zini
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Re: omwlauncher bugs

Post by Zini » 06 Feb 2015, 14:07

Because now there are no UI elements that have both a boolean selection state and an activation state that can be confused with each other.
And as an additional benefit we have the active content files in a separate list (not intermixed with inactive content files). Makes it very clear what content files are in use. Also useful if you have a large number of content files of which only a subset is used. All active files are visible at once without the need to scroll through a large list.

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scrawl
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Re: omwlauncher bugs

Post by scrawl » 06 Feb 2015, 15:51

Actually, there might be even more confusion than before (assuming that the confusion exists at all, which I am still not convinced of). Previously there was a big checkbox next to the file. Now you have to tell the active state from the side the file is on. I think the list on the right is easier to overlook than a checkbox next to the item.

Your initial example use case was "user sees file he wants to load, clicks on it, clicks Ok". The user expected the file to be loaded, but it was only selected. This would be the same problem with the two lists.

Either way, ignoring that, the general problem I see here that we would make the UI more complicated in order to "fix" a problem that would only affect Beginner users. That seems like nonsense.

Regarding the feature for seeing only the active files at a glance, that could be done in the single list too. Just add a checkbox (or context menu item) to "only show activated files".
Makes it very clear what content files are in use
A checkbox is more clear than an explanation text on top of the active files list. The problem being that we don't have localisation yet and not all users would be able to understand what the text says. A checkbox on the other hand speaks a universal language.

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Zini
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Re: omwlauncher bugs

Post by Zini » 07 Feb 2015, 17:17

Your initial example use case was "user sees file he wants to load, clicks on it, clicks Ok". The user expected the file to be loaded, but it was only selected. This would be the same problem with the two lists.
Not if it is obvious that selecting does not activate the file. I am not sure about the obvious part but at least the new design does not suggest selection==activation.
Either way, ignoring that, the general problem I see here that we would make the UI more complicated in order to "fix" a problem that would only affect Beginner users. That seems like nonsense.
As stated before this is not specific to beginners.


It seems we are not making any progress with this discussion. We are going around the same arguments for quite a while now. This is not productive.

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scrawl
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Re: omwlauncher bugs

Post by scrawl » 08 Feb 2015, 00:48

Yeah, we seem to be hitting a wall here.

Some ideas for moving on from this point:

- Since OpenMW 0.35 will be released soon with the double click change we can observe the user feedback.
- Concentrate on the remaining launcher features and bugs first, which can be found on the issue tracker (e.g. the ess-importer GUI).

By the time that is done there might be new ideas or discussion points.

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