Morrowind “Oral History”

Not about OpenMW? Just about Morrowind in general? Have some random babble? Kindly direct it here.
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AnyOldName3
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Re: Morrowind “Oral History”

Post by AnyOldName3 » 28 Mar 2019, 18:33

I mean... seriously, a game company could take OpenMW as-is and make their own game with it (following the rules the GPLv3). Why hasn't anyone?
I'd say a big part of that is that we're still aiming to recreate Morrowind, which is dated both in terms of how consumers perceive it and how you'd go about creating a new game for it. Our editor also isn't complete. If we time travelled OpenMW's source code (and the compilers necessary to build it) back to the 90s, it might save Bethesda a lot of time. If we gave it to another 90s developer, it might allow them to make something they weren't otherwise going to be able to. If we gave it to a present-day developer, they'd probably decide that before they could use it for a releasable product, they'd need to do so much work that it would be cheaper just to pay the licence fees for a modern engine.

Once we've got graphical parity with contemporary games, a complete editor, and have dehardcoded things, it'll be a much easier sale.
AnyOldName3, Master of Shadows

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raevol
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Re: Morrowind “Oral History”

Post by raevol » 28 Mar 2019, 18:58

I haven't been able to give this a real read yet, but based on the quick skim I gave it, the Morrowind development sounds a lot like Baldur's Gate: newbie devs with a grand vision, hammering out the best thing they could.

Chris
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Re: Morrowind “Oral History”

Post by Chris » 28 Mar 2019, 19:46

psi29a wrote:
28 Mar 2019, 17:43
As I have said before: I never said there wasn't a problem. There absolutely is. Bethesda is just not interested in doing anything about it because they don't have to. People still keep buying their stuff, so why should they have to change? If you're the only game in town... hence the Microsoft comparison.
Though the more they try to act like someone else, the less advantage they'll have in that regard. See how they tried to emulate games with a strong scripted narrative focus for FO4, to the point that it significantly hindered the open-world exploration, be-who-you-want style gameplay people like them for. Or how they try to adopt games-as-a-service mentality with a constant influx of new (over-priced) micro-transactions for aged games, when people liked them because they were delivering complete (albeit buggy) single-player games that could be extended with free user content.

it's not new behavior on their part, either. I got into the series with Oblivion, and one of the big reasons I did was because Bethesda touted the game as having no DRM, and that's a laudable stance. Though after release, what did they do... replace previously free post-release content with (over-priced) DLC, which was the new hotness in AAA gaming. The next game? SecuROM and GfWL integration, which was all the rage. Next game? A bleak depressive fantasy gameworld, which was all the rage. It's like they're constantly chasing the new big thing others are into, but rarely is it something that fits the game or what fans really want from them.
Really so quick to jump on the government to do the work?
I didn't say I want government regulation. But when companies are constantly abusing consumers for every last penny with no repercussions, what do you expect to happen? Personally, I'd prefer it if these companies could better self-regulate and see more value in customer loyalty (for long-term sustainability over short-term profits), but most are completely blind to it. Something has to give. At the rate it's going, I would wager that either the industry's headed for another crash, or government intervention (or worse, both).
Isn't the reason why people keep giving Bethesda money is because no one else has really delivered what Bethesda has?

I'm still waiting for an single player open-world game based on Forgotten Realms, DragonLance, Greyhawk (TSR/Wizards of the Coast licenses) or even better something based on Midkemia (Raymond E. Feist).

Once there is competition, Bethesda will have to do something.
Part of the problem is that Bethesda's been at this for nearing 30 years. Someone can come along and make something exactly like Morrowind, but it won't be Morrowind. Morrowind had several games before it that helped it start strong, and also had the aspect of being in the right place at the right time (just as Microsoft was getting into the console market, and the gaming industry was seeing unprecedented growth). You'd have an easier time trying to catch lightning in a bottle than to purposely replicate TES's success.

Developers that try to take on Bethesda's formula either don't understand it, or they do understand it but are overambitious. People who do understand the formula and know how to keep their ambitions in check may be able to make something good, but it doesn't have the decades of history that Bethesda's games have, so why would they go with that over Bethesda's offering?

Sometimes I even wonder if there is a "Bethesda formula". Ask 100 people what makes Bethesda's games special, and you'll get 101 different answers. Try to make something like TES, and something will be off that'll push away a portion of your target audience. As it is, while many people may consider Morrowind to be the pinnacle of TES, many others don't. Some consider Skyrim the best, some think the series peaked with Oblivion, some think they got it most right with Morrowind, others think they lost their way after Daggerfall. Moreover, different people have different opinions on which game is the weakest of the series. Doesn't mean people can't still enjoy all the games in the series (because it's still part of the same series with enough similarities to get a free pass), but if you're looking to make a competitor to TES, how do you target an audience that has no consensus for what they really want and don't want from it?

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psi29a
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Re: Morrowind “Oral History”

Post by psi29a » 28 Mar 2019, 20:36

TES has lore and content, that is why I gave examples of licenses where the world building is already there just waiting for an ambitious game developer to pick up and run with.

What I wouldn't give (and pay for) to have OpenMW matched with Waterdeep... just the city and a bit of the surrounding area! You wouldn't have to make shit up, the content is readily available in any number of AD&D modules, with huge ceiling to floor maps. All the lore is there as well including source material from novels by critically acclaimed authors who actually know how to write fantasy.

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raevol
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Re: Morrowind “Oral History”

Post by raevol » 28 Mar 2019, 22:48

psi29a wrote:
28 Mar 2019, 20:36
including source material from novels by critically acclaimed authors who actually know how to write fantasy.
Can you recommend any? I finally went through an Ed Greenwood novel recently, and while amusing, I wouldn't read another novel by him. But I am very interested in Waterdeep.

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Re: Morrowind “Oral History”

Post by psi29a » 29 Mar 2019, 10:56

Why not Greyhawk... great books written by _the man_ himself, Gary Gygax?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyhawk

I grew up reading these books:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saga_of_Old_City

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raevol
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Re: Morrowind “Oral History”

Post by raevol » 29 Mar 2019, 19:32

Oh I was thinking of stories set in Waterdeep? It's in the Forgotten Realms right?

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Re: Morrowind “Oral History”

Post by raevol » 30 Mar 2019, 08:05

Found this gem: "Well, how can you tell when unbridled chaos is working as intended?" regarding QA for Morrowind. :lol:


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raevol
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Re: Morrowind “Oral History”

Post by raevol » 30 Mar 2019, 21:22

psi29a wrote:
30 Mar 2019, 14:34
Yeah, there are these:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki ... p_(series)
Oooh, nice. Thank you!

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