Gaming mouse

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novajones001
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Joined: 26 Jan 2019, 13:11

Gaming mouse

Post by novajones001 » 26 Jan 2019, 13:15

Can someone help me choose a best gaming mouse? It will be better if it is a four button mouse. I have been using Corsair M65 PRO and done with it. Please suggest asap!

Jodiwe
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Re: Gaming mouse

Post by Jodiwe » 26 Jan 2019, 22:02

novajones001 wrote:
26 Jan 2019, 13:15
Can someone help me choose a best gaming mouse? It will be better if it is a four button mouse. I have been using Corsair M65 PRO and done with it. Please suggest asap!
What don't you like about your Corsair? I don't really have anything much to add to this conversation, but it would be good to know what's not right for you about your mouse to find an answer.

I have a vested interest in the answers you'll get here too, I still use the default mouse that came with my computer in 2008, I've just replaced the buttons and mouse wheel with parts from AliExpress when they wore out.

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AnyOldName3
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Re: Gaming mouse

Post by AnyOldName3 » 27 Jan 2019, 00:46

I still use the default mouse that came with my computer in 2008
Ewww... That's going to be like, 800 DPI tops? My mouse is a 3600 DPI one, and I'm okay with the sensitivity of it, but prefer my brother's mouse in 8000 DPI mode, although not enough to spend money on an upgrade (and struggle to reliably click on stuff at 12000 DPI). I don't really get how people cope with 1000 or lower - it's like riding a bicycle in first gear in that you move it loads but don't end up going anywhere.

So, it looks like the OP needs to outline his sensitivity preferences, as that could get contentious.
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Pop000100
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Re: Gaming mouse

Post by Pop000100 » 27 Jan 2019, 08:58

have only used a microsoft mouse 3500 i think, Razer Naga 2014, and Logitech 403 Prodigy, liked Razer Naga was good but after 4 years of use it has a wonky scroll wheel and some buttons have lost some sensitivity, i use the Logitech for my laptop and as a back up and i have been very happy with it, can't feel a difference in latency and i like that it has on board flash which the Naga doesn't since they want people to use Synapse

Naga has more customization.
Prodigy, i prefer it, i just haven't switched to it full time since i cant stop using a mouse that still works.

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Mistahtokyo
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Re: Gaming mouse

Post by Mistahtokyo » 02 Feb 2019, 17:22

I have a Corsair M64 Pro and after about a year of use the right click started to have issues where it either didn't register inputs at all or it would double register them. I use the mouse very frequently, though, so I wouldn't necessarily blame it, but I would personally look for mice that have been rated for a certain number of clicks in the specs themselves (The Razer Deathadder Elite is rated for 50 million clicks vs The Corsair M64's 20 million).

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wareya
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Re: Gaming mouse

Post by wareya » 02 Feb 2019, 18:46

i'm an expert on gaming mice

above 800~1600dpi, dpi stops mattering unless you're playing a competitive first person shooter with mouse acceleration, which is something you shouldn't be doing unless you have a disability or only a few inches of free desk space to move your mouse (of course, high dpi IS always better in games with proper sensitivity controls, but high dpi often brings out bugs or design flaws in the mouse's hardware or software, so if you're not an expert you should stop at 800~1600 dpi)

most mice have bad firmware or bad sensors or configure their sensors wrong, or are extremely heavy, even very popular gaming mice like the most recent deathadders have problems like obvious smoothing or high liftoff distances or issues with how button press detection is timed or what happens when pressing multiple buttons at once or have a low range of speeds that are tracked accurately

or they just fall apart after two years because the designers decided to include 184 different disconnected sheets of plastic held together by screws to make it look cool :smart:

the g203 is the only reasonably cheap mouse currently in production that doesn't have any serious problems; in GENERAL, you can trust logitech and roccat, though there are a small number of mice from other manufacturers that are good and a couple gaming mice from logitech and roccat are bad anyways (usually because of weight or bad choice of sensor)

tangent: mouse button problems actually kind of piss me off, because if you open mice up you'll see that there are three pins on the good buttons, but they only ever connect two of them to traces. so they have to use shitty debouncing/dechattering algorithms (really just digital signal smoothing filters) that add latency and have a limit on how aggressive they can be, and if they don't filter over enough time (i.e. if they don't add enough latency) then you get doubleclicking after a couple years. if they connected all three pins then they could use a timed state latching function that adds no latency at all and silences all bouncing within the state latching window, but they don't, and it's absolutely mindboggling why nobody uses all three pins. do they not know what they could be doing?
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AnyOldName3
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Re: Gaming mouse

Post by AnyOldName3 » 02 Feb 2019, 19:24

above 800~1600dpi, dpi stops mattering unless you're playing a competitive first person shooter with mouse acceleration, which is something you shouldn't be doing unless you have a disability or only a few inches of free desk space to move your mouse
I've decided I'm going to be fake-offended by this assertion. There are a few reasons:
  • (Outside of games) as I have two monitors, it would infuriatingly long to move the mouse between things without lots of DPI. I have a Logitech G400, so it doesn't have reliability issues with positioning at its cap of 3600.
  • My fingers are better at precision movement than my wrist, so I can aim at things at high DPI by moving those and keeping my wrist mostly still. Alternatively, with mice around 1000 DPI, it's all be down to wrist/arm movement. If you tried to rely on wrist movement with a high sensitivity mouse, it would obviously go badly, but that doesn't invalidate the choice of using high sensitivity with finger movement.
  • Here's where it gets really controversial - some people actively prefer mouse acceleration, despite knowing what it is, what it does, and that it can be disabled. The only argument I've seen against mouse acceleration being something people should be allowed to choose (beyond just parroting that it's bad) is that it's supposedly impossible to build up muscle memory with mouse acceleration. This isn't true, though - whenever I start a game for the first time with mouse acceleration off (or low) by default, I can tell because turning feels wrong and I can't hit anything... because I've got muscle memory for playing with mouse acceleration on. It's fine for people to be made aware that there are options and lots of people prefer the one that isn't the default, but dismissing liking it as a disability is too harsh. :P
Some people will just prefer what they're used to, and getting a mouse that isn't capable of things just because lots of people use mice in such a way that the extra sensitivity isn't beneficial doesn't guarantee that any individual wouldn't find it beneficial. If there's a computer shop where you can try various mice or you have friends with mice you can try, it can tell you what you're likely to want much more reliably.
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wareya
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Re: Gaming mouse

Post by wareya » 02 Feb 2019, 19:41

AnyOldName3 wrote:
02 Feb 2019, 19:24
  • (Outside of games) as I have two monitors, it would infuriatingly long to move the mouse between things without lots of DPI. I have a Logitech G400, so it doesn't have reliability issues with positioning at its cap of 3600.
I have two monitors too, and move around on the desktop at 1200dpi just fine. 1600dpi is the point where I start to have trouble mousing over specific individual pixels, no matter what mouse I'm using.

If you need a high dynamic range, then you want to use mouse acceleration. There's nothing wrong with using mouse acceleration on the desktop. And on the desktop, the accuracy of the mouse acceleration doesn't matter that much, so it doesn't need to be backed by a high DPI.
AnyOldName3 wrote:
02 Feb 2019, 19:24
  • My fingers are better at precision movement than my wrist, so I can aim at things at high DPI by moving those and keeping my wrist mostly still. Alternatively, with mice around 1000 DPI, it's all be down to wrist/arm movement. If you tried to rely on wrist movement with a high sensitivity mouse, it would obviously go badly, but that doesn't invalidate the choice of using high sensitivity with finger movement.
It's completely normal to use the fingertip grip when making microadjustments. This has nothing to do with DPI, it has to do with ingame sensitivity. DPI is not sensitivity, it's granularity.
AnyOldName3 wrote:
02 Feb 2019, 19:24
  • Here's where it gets really controversial - some people actively prefer mouse acceleration, despite knowing what it is, what it does, and that it can be disabled. The only argument I've seen against mouse acceleration being something people should be allowed to choose (beyond just parroting that it's bad) is that it's supposedly impossible to build up muscle memory with mouse acceleration. This isn't true, though - whenever I start a game for the first time with mouse acceleration off (or low) by default, I can tell because turning feels wrong and I can't hit anything... because I've got muscle memory for playing with mouse acceleration on. It's fine for people to be made aware that there are options and lots of people prefer the one that isn't the default, but dismissing liking it as a disability is too harsh. :P
In non-competitive FPSs, exact aiming location doesn't matter. You don't need high DPI for mouse acceleration to seem reliable enough to work properly, and you don't benefit gameplay-wise from having the extra granularity that high DPI gives you, you can just turn up your sensitivity. The crosshair might feel jerky when you try to make microadjustments, but you can use mouse acceleration if you need that kind of dynamic range. If you're playing a non-competitive FPS and feel the need to crank the sensitivity up that far, mouse acceleration is probably a good idea anyways.

If you're not using mouse accel, you can play any old random competitive FPS at a sane sensitivity at 1600dpi and not notice very much of a granularity problem. If you notice a granularity problem at 1600dpi, then you're playing with an unreasonably high sensitivity (less than two~three inches per 360) for a competitive FPS, which only makes sense if you have a disability or nearly no desk space.

If you're playing a competitive FPS, AND you're using mouse accel, THEN the accuracy of the mouse acceleration becomes a problem, and high DPI starts helping.

I have a coordination disorder associated with autism (a disability). I played quake and tf2 with mouse acceleration for thousands of hours; It wasn't until I found exactly the right mouse and posture that I could stop using mouse acceleration.

----

Again, high DPI is technically always better, but a lot of mice are bad and have problems at high DPIs, like higher amounts of smoothing, worse accuracy, or lower accurate tracking speed ranges. Even if they advertise high DPI. Unless you're an expert, sticking to low-ish DPI (1600 or less, IMO) should be the default. If you're an expert, of course, you can do whatever you want, because you can look into it yourself.

In particular, no decent modern gaming mice have problems at 800dpi that they don't have at 400dpi, only a couple have problems at 1600dpi, and lots have problems at their maximum DPI. I'm not one of those people running around claiming that 400dpi is the eternal dpi number or whatever.
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Atahualpa
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Re: Gaming mouse

Post by Atahualpa » 04 Feb 2019, 21:19

Just to throw in some personal experience: I use a Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum and it is the best mouse I've ever used in my life. Definitely suited for gaming as well as for your daily office/multimedia tasks. - No connection problems, no jittering (at least on smooth surfaces), weight/balance optimisation due to removable weights, comfortable grip (that's very subjective though)... Well, it costs quite a bit, but I would buy it again without hesitation.

(Atahualpa, 2019-02-04, approximately three days before his mouse breaks)

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wareya
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Re: Gaming mouse

Post by wareya » 05 Feb 2019, 10:34

Oh yeah, that's another thing. Modern mice have sensors with very high surface compatibility, but that doesn't mean they actually track well on every surface. Make sure you have a real mousepad.
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