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Re: Lysol's normal mapped texture packs

Posted: 02 May 2016, 02:02
by MithrilLeaf
So how difficult is your process for someone who is only mediocre at Graphic Design but can sort of hobble his way around GIMP and Blender and Photoshop and such? If it's reasonable easy to get consistent result someone (such as myself) might be able to contribute stylistically matching material.

Re: Lysol's normal mapped texture packs

Posted: 02 May 2016, 02:15
by raevol
MithrilLeaf wrote:So how difficult is your process for someone who is only mediocre at Graphic Design but can sort of hobble his way around GIMP and Blender and Photoshop and such? If it's reasonable easy to get consistent result someone (such as myself) might be able to contribute stylistically matching material.
I'm interested in this as well.

Re: Lysol's normal mapped texture packs

Posted: 02 May 2016, 03:20
by gmoller1
These textures are amazing Lysol! I really love the Hlaalu flooring. Thanks for your efforts.

Re: Lysol's normal mapped texture packs

Posted: 02 May 2016, 09:51
by GreyFox
lysol wrote:See you in five years then! :) Nah, just kidding, but I don't want to have too optimistic visions yet. There might come a time when all this is done, but I don't want to give anyone expectations, myself included. Doing this takes a very long time, and I don't have all that time (even though I would very much like to!). So right now, I only have one more texture pack planned after Hlaalu is done. We will see what happens after that.
I understand that sentiment completely. I am absolutely hyped about openmw since I heard about it recently and I'm willing to contribute(I'm working through the source atm), but I have to stay realistic. Job&private life are there too.

A complete texture rework is scary in its extend as a project. I think you can get through it with your current approach though, after all you will get more routine after a while, and its not like you have a deadline.

Re: Lysol's normal mapped texture packs

Posted: 02 May 2016, 10:08
by lysol
MithrilLeaf wrote:So how difficult is your process for someone who is only mediocre at Graphic Design but can sort of hobble his way around GIMP and Blender and Photoshop and such? If it's reasonable easy to get consistent result someone (such as myself) might be able to contribute stylistically matching material.
Uhm, that's a difficult question to answer, especially since I don't know how you define "mediocre". But I'll try to describe my workflow.

Making the diffuse texture
  • I keep a small image of the original texture to the right so that I can always control that I'm staying true to the style. Sometimes I even keep a hidden layer with the original texture in, just to be able to look at it if there are important details to do.
  • First I find a suitable base texture, usually I find something at some texture library site or google for CC textures. Ideally the texture should look as much as the original as possible. If the texture is of a plaster wall, I look around for good plaster wall textures, for example.
  • I modify the texture in ways suitable to get the result I want. Sometimes it requires a lot of modifying: Dodging, burning, removing details I don't want
  • When this is done, I go into hue/saturation (ctrl+U in photoshop). Sometimes I just change the hue directly, but often I have to check the "colorize" box. I play around with the hue, saturation and lightness until the colors are more or less identical.
  • Especially Vivec has many discreet greenish spots in a lot of walls. I got better and better at doing these later on in my workflow, so the early textures don't look that good now IMO. Might redo some of them someday. Anyway, if there are some color variations here and there, I basically make a new layer, take a grunge brush (google it) and paint around as I see fit. Of course I try to paint these color variations just like they are in the original texture. Sometimes I modify the brush to have variations in lightness and the like. Sometimes I also use the eraser with the same brush and remove if I painted too much. After this is done, I change the blending of the layer to either overlay or soft light, whatever looks the best. Often, I also lower the opacity too, quite a lot sometimes.
  • With all this said, I think the important thing is not how you do it, but the result. You have to look at the old texture and come up with a way to imitate that texture somehow. I use techniques I am familiar with, there might be better ways to do it too.
Making the normal map template
  • You don't paint the normal map yourself, you generate it. Pro's sculpt super high poly 3d models with loads of details which they then export as normal maps. I myself never tried sculpting, so I just use software to generate normal maps. This works pretty good, but you have to modify your texture a lot to make it look good.
  • You unfortunately can't just import your diffuse and expect it to look great from the start. When you begin, you might think "awesome, this looks great" but then you will realize that the software misinterpreted a lot of stuff. I'll give an example.
  • Think heightmap instead of diffuse map when you make the normal map. What I mean is, you have to think that if something should pop out, you have to make it lighter, even white sometimes. Darker colors give the opposite effect of course. I'll post some pictures soon to describe. So I base the template on the diffuse, but then I modify it to get the result I need. Sometimes, that means turning down the contrast heavily on something, sometimes turning up the contrast, and almost always it means that I will paint some detail with a very soft brush with white.
  • When I'm done with that, I import the texture to MindTex2, which I got very cheap thanks to a link in the other thread. Previously I used CrazyBump. They basically work the same, you can use either.
  • Both MindTex and CrazyBump allow you to modify the intensity of the normal map and what specific details you want to enhance (from tiny details to really large details basically).
  • I guess that's it with the normal map
The specular map
  • Specular maps was kinda hard at first. They are really really easy to do too bright. Many textures you think should have a little bit of specularity probably don't need specularity after all.
  • Things that should have specularity IMO are metals, glass and perhaps polished stone, like marbe. Play around with it and see what you see would fit. I think you will realize that you need less specularity than you think.
  • You have the RGB channels and the alpha channel. The RGB decides what colors reflects and the alpha channel decides the brightness. I find this kinda hard though, cause the RGB channel somehow makes stuff brighter too, I don't know how.
  • Why would you like to have things reflect other colors than white then? Gold, copper and the like is the answer. These metals don't reflect the light as white, but as their metallic color. Those are the only cases AFAIK which don't reflect white. So basically, if you're doing gold, paint gold in the RGB channels and do a quite bright white, if not pure white, color in the alpha channel. Everything that shouldn't have specularity must be pitch black, both in alpha and RGB.
  • Other stuff that should reflect white is more tricky to make. You have to go through every layer and reverse the hue (ctrl+u, and turn the hue to -180), turn down the saturation, and often turn down the brightness a lot too.
Wow, that took a hell of a long time. Sorry for long post. Hope it helps a little bit anyway.

EDIT:

So, some example images:

http://imgur.com/a/0vFZ9

Re: Lysol's normal mapped texture packs

Posted: 02 May 2016, 14:53
by darkbasic
Lysol while I agree that doing a full retexture alone would be suicidal, still you could lead a small group and manage to complete a full retexture before 1.0 gets released. I'm pretty sure there are still plenty of texture makers who would love to work with real normal mapped textures. Someone with a strong vision on how the final result should look is very important to avoid abominations with lots of different styles which look so different from the original game mixed altogether. I'm pretty sure such a work will get included in OpenMW 1.0.

Re: Lysol's normal mapped texture packs

Posted: 02 May 2016, 22:32
by xander2077
cool stuff. i always keep an original copy of a texture on my base layer and hide or show it as i need until i get to the point i no longer need one.

it helps a lot. another tip that helps with the different details is to clip each portion into its own layer, and clear everything around it, then you can focus on that layer and in the end merge them all down to one layer before export.

for new models i use the UV export as an overlay (never incorporate that into the texture or the lines will probably show even if you think they wont)

Re: Lysol's normal mapped texture packs

Posted: 03 May 2016, 05:41
by MithrilLeaf
lysol wrote:Making the diffuse texture
First I find a suitable base texture, usually I find something at "textures.com". Ideally the texture should look as much as the original as possible. If the texture is of a plaster wall, I look around for good plaster wall textures, for example.
Hey so that might be a problem. From the Textures.com terms of use:
2.2 You are not permitted to:
a) sell or distribute any Photos (modified or not) by themselves or in a texture pack, material, shader, scale modelling papers (pre-printed or digital), scrapbooking pack;

Re: Lysol's normal mapped texture packs

Posted: 03 May 2016, 07:26
by lysol
Huh, I thought I read their license. Shit.

Edit: so this is what I read on their website:

"Our images may be used for many different purposes, such as game development, website design, videos, paper scale modelling, use in printed materials and many other things

Some things are not allowed, for example reselling our images as Textures, shaders or other competing products."

So in other words, I can't distribute them as textures (meaning images like those found at textures.com). I am, on the other hand, allowed to use them like I do. You can't use my vivec pack as base textures to make other stuff anymore, they have already been made into a final product.

Re: Lysol's normal mapped texture packs

Posted: 03 May 2016, 08:15
by DestinedToDie
This reminds me of the contract with my landlord. In one place it states:

After the passing of 1 year this contract is regarded as void.

10 pages after that:

After the passing of 1 year this contract is regarded as unlimited.

So do I get to stay for 1 year or forever? :D


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To be fair, you are distributing them as a texture pack. However from what I understand the intent of the Terms of Use here is to stop you from making a competing site that sells the textures in a similar way to textures.com. You are technically not in the clear since nifs to which the textures are attatched are not in your zip file, but I think untechnically you are in the clear because you´re not violating their actual intent.