Always appreciated.TamrielCitizen wrote: ↑04 Dec 2018, 21:32I am among those who wish to see the Vanilla Engine behaviour in this case. As I wrote in a separate topic, I believe that OpenMW should always provide the player with an option to make it behave exactly as the Vanilla Engine. I also think it's a good idea to give those who prefer current OpenMW behaviour in this case an option to enable it when (I hope) the Vanilla Engine behaviour is restored.
Correct. It does this in Oblivion as well.TamrielCitizen wrote: ↑04 Dec 2018, 21:32I'd like to mention that, unless I am very much mistaken, in the Vanilla Engine Abilities not only change Base Value of Attributes, but also Base Value of Skills. Maybe someone can check it (I don't have access to my main computer currently) with a simple plugin that adds, say, a "Fortify Speechcraft 10" Ability to the Dunmer Race. When the character generation is complete, check the Stats Menu - if Speechcraft Skill number isn't shown in white, then I am correct. Or just use console to get Base Skill Value, I guess.
The problem I see is that with vanilla behavior, Ability fortify effects do little more than cause you to hit the cap sooner. However, the ones that are applied later in the game, after the cap has been hit, boost the stats above it. This heavily encourages metagaming in a way that's annoyingly unfriendly to attempts to roleplay. If you want to get the most out of an ability-type boost, you must obtain it after hitting 100 in the relevant attributes and skills. This isn't a thing for other types of effects.TamrielCitizen wrote: ↑04 Dec 2018, 21:32I also disagree with the opinion that such behaviour of Abilities was originally added to the game only to circumvent the bug with restoring Attributes up to their Modified Values. This behaviour basically makes the "Abilities" origin type of Magic unique. It also makes sense to me - Abilities are supposed to represent some inherent qualities of magical nature of the affected character, as opposed to some magic effect that influences the character at some point and has another origin entirely.
And I also don't understand how such behaviour of Abilities can narrow modding possibilities. On the contrary, having an origin type of Magic that is unique in terms of gameplay mechanics increases modding possibilities. Actually, I have a half-finished mod that relies on this Vanilla Engine behaviour of Abilities. I believe that Curses, on the other hand, do change Modified Values of Attributes and Skills, so if someone needs such behaviour they may use Curses instead. Although, it may have side-effects because of gameplay mechanics unique to Curses. But that's the whole point I am making - every origin type of Magic (Abilities, Curses, Deceases, Powers, Spells, what else did I forget?) has its own gameplay mechanics, which I consider to be a good thing.
However, I'll grant that there are times that base skill or base attribute makes a huge difference. Especially egregious is the vanilla health calculation. I admit this rarely occurs to me because it's probably the first thing I modded out, but it's a valid concern for people who don't. I also should clearly be more accommodating to such positions, even if I find them utterly incomprehensible, making it difficult to charitably address them.
Probably. Since that's a hardcoded thing, it'll probably be dehardcoded. The dehardcoding may even allow us to make GetBase[attribute/skill] effects take abilities into consideration, but levelups near the skill and attribute caps ignore them. That'd be really nice.