(Post 1.0 feature) Randomly-generated dungeons in-game

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austen1000
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Joined: 31 Jan 2015, 15:23

(Post 1.0 feature) Randomly-generated dungeons in-game

Post by austen1000 » 09 Dec 2017, 02:28

Before I continue, I just wanted to thank everyone who has worked/is working on OpenMW. It may lack alot of the features found in regular Morrowind w/ third-party utilities right now, but, once both the the engine and CS hit 1.0 and the post 1.0 features start rolling in, it will surpass not only the regular Morrowind engine, but, maybe even Oblivion and Skyrim w/ extensions. I would like to help myself, but, that would require more knowledge in C++ than I can currently muster. Someday, maybe...

Anyways, the request; I enjoy a good pre-made dungeon, but, on occasion, I just want something something that is randomly generated, much like how it was in Arena and Daggerfall. Like, you enter a dungeon marked for random generation, and it will take the time to generate the dungeon based upon a given set of parameters for that particular dungeon. Maybe an additional option to determine whether the generated dungeon will stay or if it will "reset" and need to be regenerated after X amount of time has passed.

Edit: I do realize this would be a big task to implement, but, you know the saying "it doesn't hurt to ask".

Chris
Posts: 1501
Joined: 04 Sep 2011, 08:33

Re: (Post 1.0 feature) Randomly-generated dungeons in-game

Post by Chris » 09 Dec 2017, 06:28

austen1000 wrote:
09 Dec 2017, 02:28
Anyways, the request; I enjoy a good pre-made dungeon, but, on occasion, I just want something something that is randomly generated, much like how it was in Arena and Daggerfall. Like, you enter a dungeon marked for random generation, and it will take the time to generate the dungeon based upon a given set of parameters for that particular dungeon. Maybe an additional option to determine whether the generated dungeon will stay or if it will "reset" and need to be regenerated after X amount of time has passed.
In Daggerfall, the dungeons weren't actually generated at run-time. The developers procedurally generated prefab "blocks", then procedurally constructed dungeons out of those blocks, during development then saved the results. So while they were "randomly generated", it was done during development and the results saved to disk. Every copy of Daggerfall has the same exact dungeon layouts stored on-disk.

Some interesting things Daggerfall did with its dungeons, though, was randomly select which kinds of monsters appear, so those could be different for different players. Also, the dungeon blocks could be textured differently depending on the region the dungeon is in (which still gives the same results for everyone, but was an interesting space-saving measure to give each region its own "look" for dungeons without duplicating or creating whole new meshes).

austen1000
Posts: 27
Joined: 31 Jan 2015, 15:23

Re: (Post 1.0 feature) Randomly-generated dungeons in-game

Post by austen1000 » 09 Dec 2017, 07:26

Chris wrote:
09 Dec 2017, 06:28
austen1000 wrote:
09 Dec 2017, 02:28
Anyways, the request; I enjoy a good pre-made dungeon, but, on occasion, I just want something something that is randomly generated, much like how it was in Arena and Daggerfall. Like, you enter a dungeon marked for random generation, and it will take the time to generate the dungeon based upon a given set of parameters for that particular dungeon. Maybe an additional option to determine whether the generated dungeon will stay or if it will "reset" and need to be regenerated after X amount of time has passed.
In Daggerfall, the dungeons weren't actually generated at run-time. The developers procedurally generated prefab "blocks", then procedurally constructed dungeons out of those blocks, during development then saved the results. So while they were "randomly generated", it was done during development and the results saved to disk. Every copy of Daggerfall has the same exact dungeon layouts stored on-disk.

Some interesting things Daggerfall did with its dungeons, though, was randomly select which kinds of monsters appear, so those could be different for different players. Also, the dungeon blocks could be textured differently depending on the region the dungeon is in (which still gives the same results for everyone, but was an interesting space-saving measure to give each region its own "look" for dungeons without duplicating or creating whole new meshes).
Thank you for the clarification on Daggerfall, could of sworn that most dungeons were randomly generated. I assume because you made no mention of Arena, that I was correct on that at least.

Also, since you are here, are your post-1.0 plans for the music system still in the works?

Chris
Posts: 1501
Joined: 04 Sep 2011, 08:33

Re: (Post 1.0 feature) Randomly-generated dungeons in-game

Post by Chris » 09 Dec 2017, 07:34

austen1000 wrote:
09 Dec 2017, 07:26
Thank you for the clarification on Daggerfall, could of sworn that most dungeons were randomly generated. I assume because you made no mention of Arena, that I was correct on that at least.
I believe the MQ dungeons for Arena were fixed, but the wilderness dungeons were random I think. I'm not 100% positive though.
Also, since you are here, are your post-1.0 plans for the music system still in the works?
It's still planned, yes. But I unfortunately can't really do anything until we're able to start extending the omwaddon format.

austen1000
Posts: 27
Joined: 31 Jan 2015, 15:23

Re: (Post 1.0 feature) Randomly-generated dungeons in-game

Post by austen1000 » 09 Dec 2017, 08:09

Chris wrote:
09 Dec 2017, 07:34
It's still planned, yes. But I unfortunately can't really do anything until we're able to start extending the omwaddon format.
That's understandable. I look forward to that day.

silentthief
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Location: Currently traversing the Ascadian Isles

Re: (Post 1.0 feature) Randomly-generated dungeons in-game

Post by silentthief » 11 Dec 2017, 16:41

There are mods for vanilla MW that will randomly generate a dungeon - along with randomized variations on existing monsters (was facing a giant dire tick, which was a very fast moving mudcrab model which growled at me like a werewolf) as well as random hostile NPCs. I will have to dig this out of my collection (got a bunch of mods downloaded and saved on an external drive from a while ago, and I am at work right now).

The way this worked was it generated the dungeon, and created the esp file. Then you are supposed to add the entrance/exit points. This is randomly generated, but not generated on the fly (as in, someone could open the CS and see the layout.) It would be an interesting thing to allow this as an "on-the-fly" generated feature, so that you could have a different dungeon generated by the game than I do.

ST the random
PS a quick google search makes me think that this is the ""blockheads random dungeon generator" for morrowind. I remember having to use a console/DOS command to make the esp file, and the quick search backs this
"Hurry, hurry! Last boat to Solstheim! Until the next one. Hah-ha-hah."

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afritz1
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Re: (Post 1.0 feature) Randomly-generated dungeons in-game

Post by afritz1 » 11 Dec 2017, 18:37

Chris wrote:
09 Dec 2017, 07:34
I believe the MQ dungeons for Arena were fixed, but the wilderness dungeons were random I think. I'm not 100% positive though.
Chris is essentially on target. The main quest dungeons (Stonekeep, Fang Lair, ...) are all premade with fixed monster spawns, as well as the city interiors (equipment, Mage's Guild, tavern, palace, ...) and certain wilderness interiors (tower, crypt). There are also wilderness dungeons that choose from a selection of premade chunks to put together, kind of like Daggerfall, but in 2D. Arena's dungeons are a lot easier to navigate than Daggerfall's since they're just a 2D maze instead of a 3D labyrinth!

Source: I'm working through Arena's level data at the moment :D

Ruarl
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Joined: 04 Jun 2012, 08:32

Re: (Post 1.0 feature) Randomly-generated dungeons in-game

Post by Ruarl » 18 Jul 2018, 16:07

Sorry for necro'ing this thread, but I'd rather post on a thread that has a similar request than creating an entirely new thread.

I would like to request that the dev's add lists for interior's, with an option to use scripts on them; for example randomizing them.

What does this request mean? It means that it will make it possible to create multiple versions of an interior, put it in a list and then at game start randomize which of these interiors will be used in an instance. (Of cause an interior can only be used once) It would be also neat to take different interiors in a region and place them in a list so that the locations of the interiors are randomized at game start. (The modders must be aware of quests regarding these interiors) We can go further and make nested lists, where the two examples previously mentioned is done at the same time.

If this is done, it would be possible to somewhat randomize the game, so that the game can be 'fresh' when you start a new game.

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Ravenwing
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Re: (Post 1.0 feature) Randomly-generated dungeons in-game

Post by Ravenwing » 18 Jul 2018, 20:53

I imagine it would be a script attached to the door, which selects from a set of different interiors. The shuffle idea is kind of interesting, although you'd still end up having the same set of dungeons, they'd just be in different places. This is actually probably possible in vanilla, just maybe not in the way you're thinking. Depends on whether scripts can move door markers or not, although you could always fake it and use a totally scripted door. I think I just played through a dungeon recently in one of the strongholds where you get transported to a different dungeon as a curse or something.

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