Resting for 100 thousand hours nonstop

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kuyondo
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Joined: 29 Mar 2016, 17:45

Resting for 100 thousand hours nonstop

Post by kuyondo » 23 Sep 2017, 03:18

hello fellas,

What is your opinion on this feature-> https://bugs.openmw.org/issues/4114

Do you think the mechanic needs a bit of tweak or improvement? Or is it fine the way it is?

I would like to see some feedbacks. And remember to look at the picture attached. :P

Thks!

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Youth
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Github profile: https://github.com/Youth17

Re: Resting for 100 thousand hours nonstop

Post by Youth » 23 Sep 2017, 03:54

My personal opinion is not Option #1.

Option #1 is probably more vanilla (I haven't checked), but it makes no logical sense to rest for over a year to restore your magicka. It also breaks lore/immersion because it encourages you to advance time 1,000s of years. Advancing time this quick just doesn't make sense to me even though we're in the area of cheats/exploits. I personally do not want to have my journal / ingame time unreliable because I slept for 9999999+ hours one time.

Option #3 could be to just prevent the "until healed" from going over a certain number of days. Players that have cheated/exploited to gain insane magicka/health could just use "until healed" multiple times - but honestly if you have 50k magicka you're more likely to be in god mode or use the console to restore your magic. This option would make the most logical since it won't let the player sleep like they're in a coma.

I think anything but "let it be" solves this problem. Players shouldn't have to get a cup of coffee every-time they rest because they cheated or are using mods that change the way leveling works.

While in Vanilla Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fallout "ESC" doesn't work in the wait menu, I personally don't think there should be any part of the game where you can't open the menu.

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raevol
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Re: Resting for 100 thousand hours nonstop

Post by raevol » 23 Sep 2017, 05:20

Youth wrote:
23 Sep 2017, 03:54
Players that have cheated/exploited to gain insane magicka/health could just use "until healed" multiple times - but honestly if you have 50k magicka you're more likely to be in god mode or use the console to restore your magic. This option would make the most logical since it won't let the player sleep like they're in a coma.
In "the industry" if you use cheats or console commands to produce a bug, but can't produce it through normal gameplay, it's considered "not a bug".

Could this be reproduced through normal gameplay with the boost Int alchemy exploit? Or do those potions wear off in a reasonable amount of time?

TechNoirMK
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Joined: 19 Aug 2015, 15:58

Re: Resting for 100 thousand hours nonstop

Post by TechNoirMK » 23 Sep 2017, 05:43

Image

kuyondo
Posts: 79
Joined: 29 Mar 2016, 17:45

Re: Resting for 100 thousand hours nonstop

Post by kuyondo » 23 Sep 2017, 10:27

Hmm.. there are several possibilities..
Of course, using alchemy exploits doesnt count, because you can also create powerful restore/fortify magicka potions with insane duration.

Lets pretend no potions is used here.
The highest magicka i can achieve in the vanilla game is 1324. It will take 60 ingame hours to fully restore from empty full.
Let say somebody decides to mod the game and creates a 10x fortify maximum magicka constant item.. Multiply that with the 1324 above.

But ultimately, this is not yet the full issue. Sleeping 60 or 10000 ingame hours doesnt seem appropriate for some..
For realism/lore friendly sake, it may be a nice idea to adjust how the heal from resting works.
Instead of healing 20 magicka per hour, maybe the magnitude of healing should be based on a constant such as the maximum magicka or attribute?
Since the only real difference here is "time taken", it has no real negative effects on gameplay. Except certain quest maybe? But then that would make the original mechanic more inferior.

I hope we can get more feedbacks.

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AnyOldName3
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Re: Resting for 100 thousand hours nonstop

Post by AnyOldName3 » 23 Sep 2017, 12:40

Just add a skip wait button and be done with it. You don't have to be sleeping for all the time you're resting. You could be having a gap year from adventuring, and just generally be chilling for all that time. I bet if Vivec got tired enough, he'd just rest for a couple of thousand years, so there's no need to overthink this. It's a user interface issue only because we're locking the user out from doing anything for several minutes. If anyone is really upset by the mechanic, they can replace it themselves post-1.0.

Chris
Posts: 1274
Joined: 04 Sep 2011, 08:33

Re: Resting for 100 thousand hours nonstop

Post by Chris » 23 Sep 2017, 13:40

kuyondo wrote:
23 Sep 2017, 10:27
Since the only real difference here is "time taken", it has no real negative effects on gameplay. Except certain quest maybe? But then that would make the original mechanic more inferior.
Every hour the game has to process updates for NPCs and scripts. There is also a chance for you to be interrupted if you're in the wilderness or a dungeon. Increasing the speed of recovery would change gameplay in that way. At best you could increase the real-time speed, so the amount of game time remains the same, but that would be dependent on how much per-game-hour processing needs to be done and how fast your system is.

Having the ability to pause the game and open the main menu while the wait/sleep updates are going on is a no-brainer. The player should always have the ability to open the main menu to quit, load a savegame, change some options, or start a new game (saving can be restricted at certain times, since it would vastly complicate things and could lead to unusable saves). The wait/sleep update dialog could also have a Cancel button for the player to stop at any time, like the later games. Both of these methods would work for allowing a player to get out of an unexpectedly long sleep.

We could also cap the amount of time "Until Healed" can actually rest for to 24 hours. This would have the benefit of not being able to use an Inn bed for more than the 24 hours you paid for.

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MinerMan60101
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Re: Resting for 100 thousand hours nonstop

Post by MinerMan60101 » 23 Sep 2017, 17:08

Personally, I don't think that capping the rest time will be as beneficial as making resting be more effective than in vanilla. As an endgame character, when my health gets depleted I typically have to wait anywhere from 24 to 48 hours to heal completely. If you made resting regenerate the character's health/magicka faster (based on the character's attributes or possibly fortify magicka effects) than vanilla, then the problem is mostly solved.

Chris
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Joined: 04 Sep 2011, 08:33

Re: Resting for 100 thousand hours nonstop

Post by Chris » 23 Sep 2017, 18:45

Changing how health/magicka regenerates is out of the scope of the engine. Eventually it'll be exposed for mods to change (beyond whatever GMSTs there already are), but regeneration works more or less as it's supposed to. Just because it's inconvenient for end-game characters (and/or modded games) that have super-high health or magicka doesn't mean the it needs to be totally redone in a way that affects all characters.

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Youth
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Re: Resting for 100 thousand hours nonstop

Post by Youth » 23 Sep 2017, 19:11

raevol wrote:
23 Sep 2017, 05:20
In "the industry" if you use cheats or console commands to produce a bug, but can't produce it through normal gameplay, it's considered "not a bug".

Could this be reproduced through normal gameplay with the boost Int alchemy exploit? Or do those potions wear off in a reasonable amount of time?
It could be produced with certain mods. For example, perhaps a mod that expects the player to be level 100 and gives them OP gear to fight OP enemies. This is probably post 1.0 but I think if OpenMW wants to be compatible with most/all mods it should allow for mods that do this kind of behavior. I personally haven't used any mods like this, but I know the exist.

Also keep in mind that whatever we do to the player should be replicated to enemies healing as well (though I think we still have an active bug out there that make enemies outside of active cells not heal). This is something that is actually common for mods - for example boss fights where the boss might have insane HP and Magicka.

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