Delay 1.0 untill all of MWSE is implemented

[commodore256]

I feel releasing with 1.0 without MWSE support might have OpenMW leave a bad taste in people's mouth. "This shit sucks, my mods don't work" and they may not go back to it. I've been told you only get one chance to make a first impression, so you shouldn't mess it up and that first impression for a lot of people starts with 1.0.

[SquireNed]

I feel releasing with 1.0 without MWSE support might have OpenMW leave a bad taste in people's mouth. "This shit sucks, my mods don't work" and they may not go back to it. I've been told you only get one chance to make a first impression, so you shouldn't mess it up and that first impression for a lot of people starts with 1.0.

Except that 1.0 is explicitly intended to fully replicate Morrowind, not MWSE. The OpenMW project has been clear about this for a long time: 1.0 means that you can play vanilla Morrowind, with a copy of Bethesda's assets, exactly as Bethesda intended. That means that there are some bugs that got fixed that were broken in the original Morrowind, but it doesn't mean that every last mod will have support right out of the gates.

There's still some discontent over whether or not OpenMW should even support MWSE at all; I think the consensus is to integrate the scripting extensions as part of OpenMW, but there are those who say that it's not really the scope of the project. In any case, some features that used to have to be done with an executable hack should now be possible within the standard confines of OpenMW, and a lot of de-hardcoding will follow 1.0, which might make some MWSE functions obsolete as there will be elegant native engine solutions to them.

[commodore256]

But vanilla Morrowind works MWSE and OpenMW 1.0 won't.

That would make OpenMW 1.0 inferior to the original Morrowind.exe in that respect from the player's perspective.

[Greywander]

While I haven't done a lot of modding, I've heard that the scripting systems in TES games are... well, pretty bad. And in the little bit of modding I've done, yeah, it can get confusing and break easily. Personally, I'd be more in favor of replacing the script engine with something entirely new, like Lua or Python. I can see the merit of integrating support for MWSE functions so that older mods will work with OpenMW, but more than that I'd like to see a better scripting system to allow for newer and better (and less broken) mods.

But opinions are cheap. The dev team will do what they think is best, and if you or I want to see something different then we can learn C++ and either join the team or fork the project. I'm sure the dev team wouldn't object if you wanted to add support for MWSE functions yourself.

[psi29a]

But opinions are cheap. The dev team will do what they think is best, and if you or I want to see something different then we can learn C++ and either join the team or fork the project. I'm sure the dev team wouldn't object if you wanted to add support for MWSE functions yourself.

Pretty much this. If you want it that badly and can't wait for others to do it for you, then do it yourself. No one is stopping you from adding MWSEs before the 1.0 release.

TODOs:
https://wiki.openmw.org/index.php?title=MWSE
https://wiki.openmw.org/index.php?title ... g_(status)

[Antsan]

I feel releasing with 1.0 without MWSE support might have OpenMW leave a bad taste in people's mouth. "This shit sucks, my mods don't work" and they may not go back to it. I've been told you only get one chance to make a first impression, so you shouldn't mess it up and that first impression for a lot of people starts with 1.0.

Except that 1.0 is explicitly intended to fully replicate Morrowind, not MWSE

I'm not saying you should implement MWSE, but I am saying that you're missing the point made.
Regarding PR it is completely immaterial whether you are completely open about not aiming to implement MWSE, it's still going to cause people going "this sucks, I cannot run my mods". Most of them won't even care to read your mission statement beyond "replicate the Morrowind engine" and they will assume this means that everything that works with Morrowind is going to work in OpenMW, which implies support for MWSE.

[psi29a]

I'm not saying you should implement MWSE, but I am saying that you're missing the point made.

The point was not missed, just that no one can be arsed to do anything about as they are already busy doing more important things than MWSE at the moment. If you want it, then make it yourself. No one will be upset if you make it in time before 1.0

Just be happy that MWSE is on the roadmap at all.

[darkbasic]

I somehow agree with commodore256, because almost no one is playing plain old Morrowind anymore and I fear that releasing 1.0 without mod support will let you lose lots of potential users. I agree that we should definitely get a better scripting system, but support for old mods is extremely important because the gold age of Morrowind mods has passed, unfortunately.

[sjek]

just throwing this out here but also mwse got it bugs of engine limitation forcing to bypass game mechanics and getting it's own limitations in the process. it somebody would code, it could be done clean and see what is needed. i think there's gonna be subset anyway becos all vanilla limitations cannot be removed as that would break the game there and here. nextref is used a lot to iterate trought lists to find certain items and perfomance wise that could be done in the engine but also apples function making althought in hackiss way. in the end morrowind as a game seems like state machine so maybe they got easy bar night over 10 years ago

edit: replicating also mwse bugs / design issues for mod compability could be necessary for fans. designing the structure would then be more free from bug implementation but never try never do

[psi29a]

Meanwhile over at the 0.40 planning thread:

Zini noted that if main OpenMW reaches the "complete" (full morrowind.exe replacement) state, then there most probably would be OpenMW 1.0 and e.g. OpenMW-CS 0.4*.0.

Only if OpenMW-CS is still far from completion at this point. I would be perfectly fine with delaying OpenMW 1.0 for a month or two, if OpenMW-CS can finish catching up in this timespan. The additional polish wouldn't hurt anyway.

There's your in... get that MWSE in under the 1.0 radar. We await your pull/merge requests.