Mod packaging and repositories

Feedback on past, current, and future development.
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psi29a
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Re: Mod packaging and repositories

Post by psi29a » 27 Jan 2014, 08:52

skullgrid wrote:If we can use, say, Pacman and Aptitude for OpenMW mods but not Yum then some users are left in the dark. Also, I'm not sure if any of them offer all of the features necessary. In most cases those package managers resolve conflicts by detecting them and asking the user to make a choice. This is not suitable in our case.
I suggested Debian repo, but it can be any repo... just a place to store the mods. It could just be nexusmods that is the backend for storage. Doesn't really matter too much.

As for using pacman or dpkg or yum... I know that dpkg can co-exist with other package managers just fine, so no one is left out of the dark there. However, I don't think a full-fledged package manager is even necessary nor wanted, but a stripped down one that resembles one where the back-end (storage) is pluggable (nexumsmods, yum, dpkg... etc). I'm sure there would be some overlap and that would a technological hurdle to get over.

Anyway... I say, keep it simple stupid (KISS) and for now, just use nexusmods to get something up and running and start adding features.

skullgrid
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Re: Mod packaging and repositories

Post by skullgrid » 27 Jan 2014, 15:27

Okulo wrote:Also don't forget about the people who are still left on Windows. Unless the team writes something like OpenTTD's Bananas (or adapts it to its own needs), they're going to be left out. Plus, someone would have to pay for those servers, so it seems Windows users are left out in the cold with that system.
Also an argument against pre-existing package managers. A new application would be easier to port or cross-compile.

Fetching files from servers would be one of many functions. If nobody ends up hosting those repos there could still be a tool that manages mods downloaded manually.

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psi29a
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Re: Mod packaging and repositories

Post by psi29a » 27 Jan 2014, 16:36

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wpkg <-- windows pkg (instead of d(ebian) pkg)

There is absolutely no reason to think that Windows users would be left out in the cold...

skullgrid
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Re: Mod packaging and repositories

Post by skullgrid » 27 Jan 2014, 16:44

BrotherBrick wrote:
skullgrid wrote:If we can use, say, Pacman and Aptitude for OpenMW mods but not Yum then some users are left in the dark. Also, I'm not sure if any of them offer all of the features necessary. In most cases those package managers resolve conflicts by detecting them and asking the user to make a choice. This is not suitable in our case.
I suggested Debian repo, but it can be any repo... just a place to store the mods. It could just be nexusmods that is the backend for storage. Doesn't really matter too much.

As for using pacman or dpkg or yum... I know that dpkg can co-exist with other package managers just fine, so no one is left out of the dark there. However, I don't think a full-fledged package manager is even necessary nor wanted, but a stripped down one that resembles one where the back-end (storage) is pluggable (nexumsmods, yum, dpkg... etc). I'm sure there would be some overlap and that would a technological hurdle to get over.

Anyway... I say, keep it simple stupid (KISS) and for now, just use nexusmods to get something up and running and start adding features.
Debian repos would work because they use HTTP for downloads if I remember correctly. You can browse the mirrors with any browser since their contents are indexed.

I've written something up and I'll post a detailed thread this evening.

maqifrnswa
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Re: Mod packaging and repositories

Post by maqifrnswa » 27 Jan 2014, 17:57

skullgrid wrote: Debian repos would work because they use HTTP for downloads if I remember correctly. You can browse the mirrors with any browser since their contents are indexed.

I've written something up and I'll post a detailed thread this evening.
You can set up your own private .deb repository too, especially since many of these mods may be considered contrib or non-free.

I'm very much a debian person, but I don't know how good this will be for other platforms. I'm not saying it won't work, I'm just saying I have no knowledge of how it will work. I, too, are more in favor of working with existing tools - maybe with nexusmods to get some standardization through them - develop a tool that grabs from nexusmod as needed.

skullgrid
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Re: Mod packaging and repositories

Post by skullgrid » 27 Jan 2014, 18:24

maqifrnswa wrote:develop a tool that grabs from nexusmod as needed.
Would the Nexus people allow this? Sounds like it would remove ad revenue for them as well as not contribute to their statistics.

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Re: Mod packaging and repositories

Post by psi29a » 27 Jan 2014, 18:49

skullgrid wrote:
maqifrnswa wrote:develop a tool that grabs from nexusmod as needed.
Would the Nexus people allow this? Sounds like it would remove ad revenue for them as well as not contribute to their statistics.
Ask permission first? Work out a deal? "Sponsored by... "

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Zedd
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Re: Mod packaging and repositories

Post by Zedd » 27 Jan 2014, 19:04

I plan on contacting people like darknut from the nexusmod sites once version 1.0 comes closer. He already granted us permission to publish news on their Morrowind section without me even asking for it. So I'm pretty sure we'll be able to work something out.
Behind you!

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Okulo
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Re: Mod packaging and repositories

Post by Okulo » 27 Jan 2014, 21:31

BrotherBrick wrote:Ask permission first? Work out a deal? "Sponsored by... "
Well, the application could be a front-end for the Nexus as well as a downloader/installer, much like how the Steam client is partially a front-end for the steampowered.com website. No doubt the mods would need descriptions, screenshots, etc. - exactly things that the Nexus already does very well. The only thing that would be different is that this application downloads and installs the mod rather than the user. The Nexus would still make money however it does now.

Picture this: the user opens the application. They are greeted by their mod management window. One click on the appropriate button/tab brings them to the Downloads section. This Downloads section prominently features the Nexus on the right half of the page. The left half shows a search function with filters that rummages through the Nexus database. Want to change the textures? Use a drop-down menu and select Models and Textures to only show a list of mods in the Nexus database stored under that category.

Found a mod that appeals to you? Click on its title in the results and the right side of the screen that displayed the Nexus frontpage now loads the information page for that mod. Like what you see? Click the Install button and the application will automatically download the file from the Nexus servers and install it as required.

The Nexus still gets its money from ad revenue and premium member donations as it always has and the end user will have done all the work done for them.

SquireNed
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Re: Mod packaging and repositories

Post by SquireNed » 29 Jan 2014, 04:40

Okulo brings up a good point. It's theoretically possible to get permission for such a system. Similarly, barring an explicit request not to use such a tool to access the site (read the fine print on the TOS where they exist, though I can't find such a thing on the Nexus website). Given that OpenMW made the newsfeed over on the Nexus, they probably know about and approve of the project and wouldn't care too much about the use of their site through an external browser (after all, how would this be any different from their perspective as a visitor using Firefox versus a visitor using Chrome?).

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