What´s the point of the Example Suite?

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DestinedToDie
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What´s the point of the Example Suite?

Post by DestinedToDie » 03 Jun 2016, 11:04

So I´ve thought about this before and recently the question came about in another thread. Now, I was not there when the Example Suite first came about and I don´t see any threads giving arguments as to why we need an Example Suite. The closest I´ve found is this quote:
Greendogo wrote:What is it?
The purpose of the OpenMW Example Suite Project is to create a fully functional demo using completely free or original content in order to demonstrate the features and improvements that the OpenMW engine brings over the vanilla Morrowind engine used by Bethesda.
So here are my thoughts, and please give me your thoughts as well, as to the purpose of the Example Suite. We can later compile them together to get a more concrete list.

1. Potential game developers can test out the engine without ever having to buy and play Morrowind.
2. Show engine features, including ones that Morrowind uses and ones that it does not.
3. Make game development easier for potential game developers and modders by giving ingame examples of how to write code, how to use features, how things work in general.
4. Provide CC-BY-SA assets that can be easily used to prototype game ideas.

Is it worth it to make a demo for these things? Should we have different goals? Or is this all pointless and we should just scrap the project? What do OpenMW devs think about the purpose of this demo?

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psi29a
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Re: What´s the point of the Example Suite?

Post by psi29a » 03 Jun 2016, 13:11

The reason why I've been active on the template and example suite is because I want it for upgrading OpenMW's status in Debian and Ubuntu from 'contrib' to 'main'. This means being a first-class citizen, FOSS game-engine, in the eyes of millions of Debian/Ubuntu users.

This can't be done while OpenMW requires Bethesda's IP to run. If we had something, anything, that we can point to, install and say OpenMW works... out of the box and you can "play", even if a demo, then that is good enough for inclusion and promotion of OpenMW in the Linux world.

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DestinedToDie
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Re: What´s the point of the Example Suite?

Post by DestinedToDie » 03 Jun 2016, 13:18

psi29a wrote:If we had something, anything, that we can point to, install and say OpenMW works... out of the box and you can "play", even if a demo, then that is good enough for inclusion and promotion of OpenMW in the Linux world.
So then we don´t need a demo at all, just something with CC-BY assets?

Could theoretically make a rock simulator. Object:player is rock. No movement animations. You just sit on the beach all day and admire the fancy water shader.

K0kt409P
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Re: What´s the point of the Example Suite?

Post by K0kt409P » 03 Jun 2016, 13:30

psi29a wrote:The reason why I've been active on the template and example suite is because I want it for upgrading OpenMW's status in Debian and Ubuntu from 'contrib' to 'main'. This means being a first-class citizen, FOSS game-engine, in the eyes of millions of Debian/Ubuntu users.
Why is the example suit necessary for this to happen? OpenMW-CS will be a fully featured game development tool without dependencies on third party IPs. Shouldn't that qualify for inclusion in Debian main? And since OpenMW is a dependency of OpenMW-CS, it would also get in.

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psi29a
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Re: What´s the point of the Example Suite?

Post by psi29a » 03 Jun 2016, 13:53

That was the excuse given to me by an arm-chair lawyer over at Debian for not allowing openmw into 'main'.

Technically template would be 'good enough' since it can be used as a basis to create anything you want with the OpenMW-CS. However the Example-Suite is what _I_ would want to also see downstream in Debian.

As you said, it can be improved over time to demo new features and functionality in OpenMW.

GeorgeTheWarp
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Re: What´s the point of the Example Suite?

Post by GeorgeTheWarp » 31 Jul 2016, 20:48

Debian probably won't change much, TBH. The heavily outdated packages won't be a good source of information about our project, and not many uses sid. Not a criticism of debian, I just don't like how they handle stuffs for games. It works great for everything else, but for games it's a bit... Weird.

silentthief
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Re: What´s the point of the Example Suite?

Post by silentthief » 01 Aug 2016, 03:09

DestinedToDie wrote: Could theoretically make a rock simulator. Object:player is rock. No movement animations. You just sit on the beach all day and admire the fancy water shader.
You totally took my idea! (Just kidding... LOL, rock simulator).

---

I took the example suite to show that the project can do more that simply play morrowind. I like the idea of TC or original game, and I would love this to go on to bigger better things. Don't get me wrong, I love playing morrowind. But I think that the example suite will show people that the project is not dependent on Bethesda IP.

I also think that the ability to get exposure on the debian (and other) repositories will only increase our momentum.

ST
ps, I know that that means I should contribute something to the development of the example suite... I am working on getting my laptop set up to be able to contribute something.

maqifrnswa
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Re: What´s the point of the Example Suite?

Post by maqifrnswa » 18 Sep 2016, 15:16

K0kt409P wrote:
psi29a wrote:The reason why I've been active on the template and example suite is because I want it for upgrading OpenMW's status in Debian and Ubuntu from 'contrib' to 'main'. This means being a first-class citizen, FOSS game-engine, in the eyes of millions of Debian/Ubuntu users.
Why is the example suit necessary for this to happen? OpenMW-CS will be a fully featured game development tool without dependencies on third party IPs. Shouldn't that qualify for inclusion in Debian main? And since OpenMW is a dependency of OpenMW-CS, it would also get in.
That's a good argument to make to, actually. It's not a game engine, it's a game development platform with a game engine... If it is useful on its own, then it could be in main. I think the legal people might be ok with that, especially if there are demos out there of people that did do something with it (like that jumping game someone made last year).

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Greendogo
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Re: What´s the point of the Example Suite?

Post by Greendogo » 21 Sep 2016, 06:37

The Example Suite Project is a public relations project aimed at exposing OpenMW to more people. The more people who can use it out of the box and see what it can do, the more we can drive the engine's adoption and improvement. Creating a thriving modding community is necessary and we can't do it by only relying on the Morrowind base game.

Honestly, the most important thing that the Example Suite should bring to the table is probably the platform to let people who don't own Morrowind tinker with the engine with enough pre-integrated assets that it isn't a pain in the ass to get off the ground.

Following that, definitely allowing people to easily download and install the engine just to test it and say "wow, this is cool; I want to get involved in something related to this" would be a nice 2nd.

There are a lot of benefits to having an Example Suite that are tertiary to the project's main goals, but are just as if not more important to some people (like getting it included in Debian main, from psi's perspective).

Probably some of the biggest abstractions from the main goals are these: regardless what you are doing with OpenMW and it's Editor, the development of the Example Suite is going to uncover a lot of rough spots in the engine, it's going to demystify game development using the engine by giving people something to refer to, it's going to provide basic assets like simple animations and a skybox that are difficult or confusing to produce on one's own, it's going to demonstrate post-Bethesda functionality that isn't demonstrated in the original game, it will most likely continue to foster discussion of engine improvements and help us compile enough How-To material to eventually fill our wiki with the required knowledge to build a game or mod any OpenMW based game.

Remember GhanBuriGhan's Morrowind Scripting Guide For Dummies? That was a great tome of knowledge. Hopefully we can attract enough talented enthusiasts that someone, someday, will write like that for our little engine. It would be great to have YouTube walkthroughs of game development on OpenMW and many more wiki contributors.

So yeah, like I said: The Example Suite is a public relations project. It's purpose is to make OpenMW better.

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