Post 1.0 Plans

Anything related to PR, release planning and any other non-technical idea how to move the project forward should be discussed here.
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Zini
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Re: Post 1.0 Plans

Post by Zini » 20 Jul 2018, 10:57

We are not communicating very clearly it seems. Because most of what I read here makes absolutely no sense to me.

I'll sum up the plan once more (was kinda hoping that I wouldn't have to do that again now that the document is out). Hopefully this will clear things up a bit and then we continue the discussion without talking past each other so much (if there is still a need for more discussion).

The current system of data directories stays as it is. This is meant for handling different platforms and different types of installation, plus the special requirements of OpenMW-CS. This is not meant to organise content.

Within the data directories we will add a content directory (or alternatively an archive) for each content file (omwgame, omwaddon). The files in the content directory are loaded only if the respective content file is included in the current content file list. We allow for a method to only load the content directory without the actual content file. The stage1 document describes a flag in the dependency list of content files for this, but we probably could also add an option in the content file selector (launcher and OpenMW-CS).

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psi29a
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Re: Post 1.0 Plans

Post by psi29a » 20 Jul 2018, 11:14

How do we handle multiple OpenMW instances on a machine?

Should there be only one that plays multiple 'games'.

and/or

Should we have multiple instances of OpenMW (branched forks, either because of version or because of feature), such as a standalone version of OpenMW to play one specific 'game'?

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Zini
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Re: Post 1.0 Plans

Post by Zini » 20 Jul 2018, 11:25

How do we handle multiple OpenMW instances on a machine?

Should there be only one that plays multiple 'games'.
Obviously we can have an installed OpenMW and any number of uninstalled OpenMW (self-build usually) instances in parallel.
Should we have multiple instances of OpenMW (branched forks, either because of version or because of feature), such as a standalone version of OpenMW to play one specific 'game'?
A fork would hopefully have a different name, meaning there shouldn't be any conflicts.

For separate games that use an unmodified engine we only need one instance of OpenMW. In Linux package terms, OpenMW would be a dependency for these games.

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AnyOldName3
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Re: Post 1.0 Plans

Post by AnyOldName3 » 20 Jul 2018, 12:42

For a recent personal anecdote, I've got a New Vegas playthrough going now with the mod New Vegas Redesigned - it's a mod that redesigns the appearances of the characters of the game, and which in order to do so properly needs you to have a particular set of body meshes installed for the characters in your game, but which does not actually say which set of body meshes in particular you need. I took a more-or-less wild guess on which body mesh mods (content directories) I should apply to my game - and then an hour into my save I realized that the characters in my game had broken textures. I tried swapping out one mod for another (disabling the content directory of the first and installing and then enabling the content directory of the second) - still didn't work. Eventually I figured out that New Vegas Redesigned expects you to have a specific custom body mesh for females, but then the base game's body mesh for males, so that's the final setup of my content directories for body meshes that I came to in my game having by that point enabled and then disabled a number of different content directories for different body mesh sets in my game. If all of this were done under a system of content directories having to be bound to one's plugin load order, and to one's save with that, would the registry in my save of my plugin load order now have all these dead records for all the sets of body meshes I've enabled and then disabled as I've played on it?
I'm pretty sure this is just New Vegas' archive invalidation being hilariously broken and working in the wrong direction and an accidental workaround you've found. As well as the standard Oblivion-era archive invalidation bugs, Fallout 3 and New Vegas have records in higher priority ESPs override those of lower priority ones, but for BSAs, it's the lower priority ones which win conflicts. Apparently, Bethesda didn't even know about this as there's a bug in the Broken Steel DLC where a modified asset provided by the DLC gets overridden by the version from the base game.

If you manually unpack all your New Vegas BSAs and then repack them into a single archive, New Vegas Redesigned definitely works with Robert's Male Bodies, not just the vanilla ones. This is a load of hassle, though, so I just coped with there being a few people with boxer shorts on their chest.
AnyOldName3, Master of Shadows

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AnyOldName3
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Re: Post 1.0 Plans

Post by AnyOldName3 » 20 Jul 2018, 12:48

Specifically regarding the example, though, it's an example of a mod that requires you have one of a few different other mods installed, but doesn't mind which. This wouldn't work amazingly in a system where the body replacer mods can declare their existence via a content file. We can't just allow mods to provide a list of other mods which they could depend on just one of, as body replacers are a dime a dozen, but I can't think of an elegant way for a mod to declare that it provides meshes compatible with the Type 3 Body's UV map and for other mods to rely on that without modders having to manually adopt certain conventions.
AnyOldName3, Master of Shadows

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Zini
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Re: Post 1.0 Plans

Post by Zini » 20 Jul 2018, 17:47

Add a new type of dependency? Specified by a special key-word plus version number in the dependency that is then referenced in the content file that depends on the dependencies? Sounds like a whole lot of work for an edge case though. May consider it, depending on how common this situation is.

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heilkitty
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Re: Post 1.0 Plans

Post by heilkitty » 22 Jul 2018, 13:32

Am I right to assume that this mechanics would allow to assign multiple factions to NPCs/creatures?
In Soviet MoЯЯowind, Almalexia kills YOU!!

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Zini
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Re: Post 1.0 Plans

Post by Zini » 22 Jul 2018, 15:53

Nope.

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Zini
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Re: Post 1.0 Plans

Post by Zini » 24 Jul 2018, 12:04

I have started a MR to collect improvements to the stage1 document based on forum suggestions: https://gitlab.com/OpenMW/openmw/merge_requests/29

@Passerine

You make a good point with the music priority. It doesn't work exactly the same way for us, but the idea is still valid. I added priorities for event music instead. That should cover cases like the boss combat music you mentioned.

HeadClot
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Re: Post 1.0 Plans

Post by HeadClot » 27 Jul 2018, 21:46

Hey everyone -

I am a shy and quiet person when It comes to the OpenMW community but I have a few suggestions that would make it much easier for artists and possibly programmers.

1. GLTF 2.0 support - We have a conversation going over here.
2. Support for Open XR in Open MW. This would allow VR support for OpenMW. I have been asking for VR support in the Open MW discord. I really want to explore Morrowind in VR.
3. Support for plugins in the Open CS. Opposed to making Open CS a giant monolithic program. Why mot make it a modular one using plugins? This opens the doors up to allot of things in terms of tools and the like.
4. Physically Based Rendering support - This is the modern standard for lighting in modern video games. I think some one is working on this but not sure who.
5. Tools - Build tools that allow artists and level designers to do their various tasks better and faster. I am looking at body shape studio, outfit studio, being able to prefab a building or object, better grid snapping as examples. Plugin support would greatly help with this.

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