Alchemy

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Zini
Posts: 5538
Joined: 06 Aug 2011, 15:16

Alchemy

Post by Zini »

From what I see we need the following formulae for the alchemy skill:

- chance of succeeding to make a potion
- skill gain per created potion
- mesh/item selection for created potions (based on skill?)
- coin value of the created potion
- duration (the formula on the wiki seems incomplete; at least it is missing the effect of a calcinator)

Also, anyone any idea, if all effects or only those known per alchemy skill level come into play when the raw ingredient is eaten?

Since I am going to extend my potion usage task for 0.17.0 to ingredients, it would be helpful to have an answer to this question as well as the skill gain formulae. Anything else would still be needed as soon as someone tasks the alchemy task.
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sirherrbatka
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Joined: 07 Aug 2011, 17:21

Re: Alchemy

Post by sirherrbatka »

duration (the formula on the wiki seems incomplete; at least it is missing the effect of a calcinator)
I do belive it works just as alembic but for all effects.

PS
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Alchemy
some effects do not act like they're supposed to, for example, when making an invisibility potion, you'll receive a longer duration if you use *either* a Calcinator or Retort than if using both - the reasons for this are as of yet unknown
Using an Alembic and Calcinator together has somewhat unpredictable results, but it will reduce (instead of increasing like the Calcinator is supposed to) both the PotionStrength and PotionDuration by a certain amount. The exact formula involved is rather complex and frustrating, so use the table below, based on the in-game tool qualities (multiply PotionStrength and PotionDuration by said number)
coin value of the created potion
Price: The price of the resulting potion is equal to the BasePotionStrength, and is not affected by any other tools, or by having multiple effects (the potion will cost the same whether it has 1 or 8 different effects)
Also, anyone any idea, if all effects or only those known per alchemy skill level come into play when the raw ingredient is eaten?
game rules say that only the first effect counts.
Chris
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Joined: 04 Sep 2011, 08:33

Re: Alchemy

Post by Chris »

sirherrbatka wrote:game rules say that only the first effect counts.
And it doesn't matter whether you know the effect or not.

For potions, all effects (known or unknown) are applied when consumed. For ingredients, only the first effect (known or unknown) is applied when consumed.
Myckel
Posts: 72
Joined: 16 Jun 2012, 09:48

Re: Alchemy

Post by Myckel »

I'll see what I can do on this next few days.
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Zini
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Joined: 06 Aug 2011, 15:16

Re: Alchemy

Post by Zini »

Thanks! For now the skill gain is of particular importance and urgency, so I suggest you start with that.
Myckel
Posts: 72
Joined: 16 Jun 2012, 09:48

Re: Alchemy

Post by Myckel »

This is the data I have for now (OpenOffice / LibreOffice spreadsheet):
http://myckel.freeshell.org/Morrowind.ods

There are 2 tabs used untill now:
"Start" Contains stats from my character that I rolled.
"Save 1" is the data from today.

The Save 1 shows a chronological progress through the game with all the alchemy-related things I did:
I bought a Apprentice's Mortar and Pestle, everything for today is done with this.
If I did mixtures, these are the entries with "Alchemy", state the ingredients and results on the stats. If a potion was created I wrote down the stats about the potion (as far as I could determine) as well. The seconds and effects behind braces are estimated.

I hope this is detailed enough, if things are missing that are handy to be included next time, please let me know.
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Zini
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Joined: 06 Aug 2011, 15:16

Re: Alchemy

Post by Zini »

This is pretty interesting. I read the data like this:

(1) You get the same amount of skill gain independently of what you are making.
(2) You don't get a skill gain from failing.
(3) The amount of skill gain needed varies depending on the current level. We still need a formula for it. There is an oddity in the data though (going from level 6->7).
(4) When you gain a level from a skill gain the overflowing amount of skill increment is not carried over to the new level (see level 5->6).

I think we need more data. Particularly for a larger level range (both lower and higher). You can set your alchemy level with the setAlchemy instruction from the console.
Myckel
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Joined: 16 Jun 2012, 09:48

Re: Alchemy

Post by Myckel »

(3) Might be a mistake, that I missed creating one potion (the only explaination I have for that, I had 2 potions after that, but not sure if I already had one at that time).

Level 6 has also relative few fails, compated to level 5 and 7.
Also rounding seems to take place at some times (Alchemy 5: 27 -> 53 ->80 and Alchemy 8: 18 -> 36 -> 53 )

I will do more data colleting, but it is going to take some time, although your tip will be helpfull.
Myckel
Posts: 72
Joined: 16 Jun 2012, 09:48

Re: Alchemy

Post by Myckel »

I've put the updated document online (up to level 17 now), same link. I've died a few times (before saving) and had Morrowind crash on me one time, so this is something to watch out for in the data (check the level in the "Save 3 tab").

One interesting thing is that the chance of successfully creating a potion (or failing for that matter) seems to be somewhat constant in the 5 - 16 level range. This could be more linked to Intelligence, Luck and the type of mortar and pestle (which I've been keeping constant) instead of the Alchemy level.
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Zini
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Joined: 06 Aug 2011, 15:16

Re: Alchemy

Post by Zini »

Focussing on the skill gain for now: I think I start to get an idea how the formula looks. We will need more data, both for low levels but particularly for high levels.

However I suggest you change your character. According to GMSTs misc skills have a 1.25 skill bonus (which seems to be a negative bonus), while major skills have a 0.75 bonus and minor skills a 1.0 bonus. So please pick a class which has alchemy as a minor skill (we will still need the current misc skill data to figure out the exact effect of the skill bonus).

Edit: Here is my preliminary formula:

For misc skills (n+1)*0.625 skills gains are required, where n is the current level and overflows are not considered..
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