Two bug reports on reddit

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lysol
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Two bug reports on reddit

Post by lysol » 09 Dec 2017, 22:02

Hey all. There was a guy on reddit saying OpenMW was useless because two things. One of them is probably a legit bug, but the other might have a thought behind it. He didn't bother reporting them anyway, so I thought I might do it for him.

Here's the comment:
Doing some quick tests by specifically abusing the hell out of admire, since it's now just to hold-down a keyboard-key to spam admire, the result is that OpenMW is fatally broken since it counts birth-signs like The Lady as just a fortified attribute but where health on level-up just disregards the fortified attribute.

This mean, even if it shows in-game you've got example 89 endurance currently, you'll only get 6 extra health on level-up since your actual endurance is 64.

So, instead of The Lady being the best birth-sign, with the possible exception of anyone wanting to live with the huge penalties of the Atronach, with OpenMW The Lady is now a birth-sign where +25 to endurance is completely useless and since +25 to personality is nearly useless where's really no reason to ever choose The Lady.

Meaning, nearly all other birth-signs is now better than The Lady.

So, at least for me, OpenMW v0.43.0 is something I just hit "uninstall" on, since in it's current state it's completely useless to me.
The thing with The Lady birthsign, is that a bug or intentional?
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wareya
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Re: Two bug reports on reddit

Post by wareya » 09 Dec 2017, 22:09

This is a core aspect of vanilla chargen balance so OpenMW pretty much has to use the vanilla behavior here.
paying attention to #1751 #2473 #3609 #3862/#3929 #3807 #4297 #4623

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lysol
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Re: Two bug reports on reddit

Post by lysol » 09 Dec 2017, 22:16

Wait, so you mean vanilla actually works the same? Then what the hell is this guy talking about?

EDIT: I just misread your comment first. I get what you mean now.
Last edited by lysol on 09 Dec 2017, 22:28, edited 1 time in total.
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wareya
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Re: Two bug reports on reddit

Post by wareya » 09 Dec 2017, 22:21

Wait, no, I mean that the weird behavior - the sign affecting health growth - is the vanilla behavior. OpenMW doesn't have the vanilla behavior here. It's a very weird behavior, but despite that, OpenMW has to use it, even though it doesn't right now. Vanilla pockpicketing and bartering scaling are very broken, so it would make sense if OpenMW deviated at least slightly, but the weird behavior here isn't like that since it's a core part of the game's balance.
paying attention to #1751 #2473 #3609 #3862/#3929 #3807 #4297 #4623

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lysol
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Re: Two bug reports on reddit

Post by lysol » 09 Dec 2017, 22:35

I did some search in the bugtracker and it does seem this was up for debate earlier, see this:

https://bugs.openmw.org/issues/1751

Sorry for not checking it out before starting a new thread about it.
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CMAugust
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Re: Two bug reports on reddit

Post by CMAugust » 09 Dec 2017, 22:46

Yes, it's been sitting on the bugtracker for years. scrawl would prefer the current OpenMW behavior unless someone submits an acceptable solution. I don't like it, but to say it renders OpenMW completely useless is just crazy to me. I guess some players feel very strongly about the Lady.

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heilkitty
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Re: Two bug reports on reddit

Post by heilkitty » 10 Dec 2017, 07:03

UESP adamantly states it's vanilla behavior, that guy is a silly n'wah for uninstalling OpenMW because of this.
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Cramal
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Re: Two bug reports on reddit

Post by Cramal » 10 Dec 2017, 09:41

It may be one of the thing MCP changes.

Some people use MCP without even remembering it.

CMAugust
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Re: Two bug reports on reddit

Post by CMAugust » 10 Dec 2017, 13:33

To be clear, this is a plain vanilla mechanic that OpenMW currently doesn't emulate, and is not an addition from MCP. User rot tor summed up the important differences on the issues page:
Although birthsigns appear in the magic effects list in vanilla they do affect base stats there (and the value is displayed normally, not in white as if fortified)

Note that base stat values are also relevant to vanilla faction rank requirements (eg Fighters Guild and House Redoran for Endurance, guess Hlaalu for personality, etc.) - even if those requirements are low (30-35) and easily met, it would be bad for birthsign bonuses not to apply there.
We see much the same behavior in Oblivion, so this is almost certainly by design. The issue for OpenMW, as I understand it, is that there hasn't been a solution yet that doesn't result in the underlying code looking messier.

LoneWolf
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Re: Two bug reports on reddit

Post by LoneWolf » 10 Dec 2017, 13:57

To be clear, this is a plain vanilla mechanic
UESP [1] and Elderscrolls [2] wikis both claim the bonus from the Lady birthsign does NOT increase health.
I can't find info in Openmw wiki whether this has been researched, but it should be easy to check.

Anyone willing to run vanilla MW without any mods and starting 2 characters that only differ in birthsign ?
A few Screenshots of the stat screen would help to clarify this.

[1] http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Health
[2] http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Health_(Morrowind)

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