Playthrough observations

General discussion regarding the OpenMW project.
For technical support, please use the Support subforum.
User avatar
raevol
Posts: 3013
Joined: 07 Aug 2011, 01:12
Location: Caldera

Playthrough observations

Post by raevol » 06 Sep 2014, 05:13

Some things I've noticed on my playthrough:

1- Our NPC pathfinding is terrible. As in, I can hang an NPC up on a pole, and it won't even try to run around it to get me. I know vanilla pathfinding wasn't great, and pathfinding is a pretty tricky thing to implement, but the game is pretty easy given the pathfinding right now.

2- Sometimes I can't jump. I can't figure out what causes this, but if you play the game and jump everywhere, you'll start to notice this.

3- We've got that bug where stationary NPCs slowly migrate as the time (save/loads?) goes by. Was this fixed in the data file patches that I don't have applied? Or is this something we need to fix in the code?

4- As previously mentioned, our Shadow and Water effects are a huge grind on fps, but having them shut all the way off is a pretty sad way to play. Some sort of intermediary in quality and performance would be nice...

5- Damn this game is fun... great work you guys.

Deonsion
Posts: 30
Joined: 13 Aug 2014, 02:33

Re: Playthrough observations

Post by Deonsion » 06 Sep 2014, 19:53

https://bugs.openmw.org/issues/1102 -pathfinding

https://bugs.openmw.org/issues/1446 -- Sounds like this

(Can't find via search.)

(I am fairly sure this is a known issue. Already a thread in here about it I believe)

Might want to submit bug reports on these if they aren't in the bugtracker

Chris
Posts: 1558
Joined: 04 Sep 2011, 08:33

Re: Playthrough observations

Post by Chris » 06 Sep 2014, 20:19

raevol wrote:3- We've got that bug where stationary NPCs slowly migrate as the time (save/loads?) goes by. Was this fixed in the data file patches that I don't have applied? Or is this something we need to fix in the code?
I believe this is just the way the game works, and happens in a fully-patched vanilla game, too. The issue is that some of the idle animations have very small changes to the object position, which causes the object to move slightly (and vanilla Morrowind does move the object when an idle animation moves, for some silly reason). Ideally, the animation should put them back right where they used to be at the end of the animation, so the net change in position is 0, although if the NPC gets unloaded while in the middle of such an animation, that updated position will be saved for the next time the NPC loads in. So the next time they're loaded in, they're slightly shifted to the side of where they originally were. Keep doing that, and those slight changes accumulate.

User avatar
raevol
Posts: 3013
Joined: 07 Aug 2011, 01:12
Location: Caldera

Re: Playthrough observations

Post by raevol » 07 Sep 2014, 00:21

Chris wrote:I believe this is just the way the game works, and happens in a fully-patched vanilla game, too. The issue is that some of the idle animations have very small changes to the object position, which causes the object to move slightly (and vanilla Morrowind does move the object when an idle animation moves, for some silly reason). Ideally, the animation should put them back right where they used to be at the end of the animation, so the net change in position is 0, although if the NPC gets unloaded while in the middle of such an animation, that updated position will be saved for the next time the NPC loads in. So the next time they're loaded in, they're slightly shifted to the side of where they originally were. Keep doing that, and those slight changes accumulate.
Anything we can do to fix this? Like store an actors starting position when they start an idle animation, and save that position as their position if they are in an idle animation when the game is saved? Some of these Silt Strider drivers are going to fall off their platforms soon...

silentthief
Posts: 386
Joined: 18 Apr 2013, 01:20
Location: Currently traversing the Ascadian Isles

Re: Playthrough observations

Post by silentthief » 07 Sep 2014, 03:45

perhaps something like a "reset actors" type fix? In vanilla MW console you can reset the actors to default locations (and if I remember correctly this also restores all changes such as inventory, disposition to player, health, everything). Something like that happening when you pass through a transfer door, maybe?

ST
"Hurry, hurry! Last boat to Solstheim! Until the next one. Hah-ha-hah."

Chris
Posts: 1558
Joined: 04 Sep 2011, 08:33

Re: Playthrough observations

Post by Chris » 07 Sep 2014, 05:27

raevol wrote:Anything we can do to fix this? Like store an actors starting position when they start an idle animation, and save that position as their position if they are in an idle animation when the game is saved? Some of these Silt Strider drivers are going to fall off their platforms soon...
No, because idle animations can legitimately move the actor (vanilla doesn't, but IIRC some custom creatures do).

It might be possible to fix this with a mod, though. First, set an invisible marker object down where the person should stand. Then add a script that checks if the actor's distance to that object is above some threshold, and if so (and they're not in combat) give them an AITravel package that moves them to that object's position. That way, if they move too far away from where they should be they'll automatically walk back.
silentthief wrote:perhaps something like a "reset actors" type fix? In vanilla MW console you can reset the actors to default locations (and if I remember correctly this also restores all changes such as inventory, disposition to player, health, everything). Something like that happening when you pass through a transfer door, maybe?
There's why it's not a good idea. They'd resurrect if they died, lose any disposition alteration they should have, and get back any items they may have lost.

lef42
Posts: 33
Joined: 27 Jul 2014, 16:33

Re: Playthrough observations

Post by lef42 » 07 Sep 2014, 05:34

I've actually found dead silt strider guys already who have fallen :( Rip

User avatar
raevol
Posts: 3013
Joined: 07 Aug 2011, 01:12
Location: Caldera

Re: Playthrough observations

Post by raevol » 07 Sep 2014, 06:03

Chris wrote:No, because idle animations can legitimately move the actor (vanilla doesn't, but IIRC some custom creatures do).
Well maybe we can save their animation frame then, and resume the animation when the game is loaded?

SquireNed
Posts: 401
Joined: 21 Dec 2013, 22:18

Re: Playthrough observations

Post by SquireNed » 07 Sep 2014, 06:52

Does weather give a significant performance hit to anyone else, or am I wishfully thinking about my rig's FPS?

On a more related note, saving the animation frame sounds like a good idea. It has other applications beyond just fixing this potential issue, such as maintaining immersion (ever noticed how sometimes when you close your eyes and open them the universe starts moving again in lock step?).

User avatar
scrawl
Posts: 2152
Joined: 18 Feb 2012, 11:51

Re: Playthrough observations

Post by scrawl » 07 Sep 2014, 17:22

No, because idle animations can legitimately move the actor (vanilla doesn't, but IIRC some custom creatures do).
Even in vanilla, the "dancing" idle animations (used in Desele's house of earthly delights) legitimately move the actor, as well.

I'm not sure if saving animation state is a good idea in general. When you leave a cell and come back after days (or months) of game-time, you wouldn't expect the actor to be in the exact pose as when you left.

Perhaps we could define a threshold value for correcting an actor's position, i.e. on unloading the cell, move the actor back its starting position if the idle animation moved them less than this threshold?

Post Reply