Asset Update to Ogre3D Discussion Thread

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HeadClot
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Re: Some modeling/animation questions. Offering RDP Renderin

Post by HeadClot » 19 Aug 2014, 10:34

MacKom wrote:
bahamut wrote:
AeroPhonicsOfficial wrote: 3-Can I start on the Actors section (Body models then armor and clothing)? ;)
I would personaly wait with that, because imo the whole body system needs to be remade and redesigned, for now it works good for those fractured limbs vanila game has, buidling something from scrach on top of that would be a waste of time
This. This x 157. :mrgreen:

Here`s the thing - I`ve been giving some thought on a new character creation system, making mental notes, looking at other games etc. I do have a list of suggestions/road map when it comes to making all of this, I just need to sit down and write it all.

So, in quick notes - I`d forget about better bodies, and my redone heads series, and current armor/robes/clothes replacer. Scrape it ALL and start anew. But later, much, much later, once OMW gets past 1.0 version and we know for a fact what exactly we have at our disposal, what new skeleton we`ll be using, what file format, what will be the limitations, etc. We will need a lot of scripting help as well if we are to make a slider/morph based character creation (which I personally am hoping for).

So, for now - statics. Practice, practice, practice, read up on poly count, check out Polycount.com and its Wiki, learn as much as you can. There`s a lot of work to be done.
I would have to agree with what MacKom 100%.

Start fresh from the skeleton and move up with the base meshes for each of the races. :)

Also morphs got to have morphs :)

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Berandas
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Re: Updating original assets to Ogre3D

Post by Berandas » 19 Aug 2014, 11:37

It's nice to have you onboard, MacKom. I'm quite curious about your ideas.
We should definately use some vertex groups and other stuff for more detailed customisation of characters.
Perhaps MakeHuman could help us well.

HeadClot
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Re: Updating original assets to Ogre3D

Post by HeadClot » 19 Aug 2014, 11:46

Berandas wrote:It's nice to have you onboard, MacKom. I'm quite curious about your ideas.
We should definately use some vertex groups and other stuff for more detailed customisation of characters.
Perhaps MakeHuman could help us well.
I would honestly use FUSE. Make human is great but it has a few missing features for an open world game. For example - In fuse you can define a mask for your Clothing and have it cull and faces that should not be rendered.

For example -

If I have some pants the legs should not be rendered underneath the pants.
We can even export morph targets for the face and body.

MacKom
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Re: Updating original assets to Ogre3D

Post by MacKom » 19 Aug 2014, 11:58

I would personally prefer if we could build or make as much as we can ourselves, w/o relying on other features and programs (except those that are really needed, ofc). Just to keep everything as "original" as possible, not worrying about copyright and crediting and such. If it can be avoided, let`s avoid it. Granted, it would take us longer to finish everything, but at least it would be "ours", and would give us more freedom in managin the assets.

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Berandas
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Re: Updating original assets to Ogre3D

Post by Berandas » 19 Aug 2014, 12:06

I have no experience with FUSE, just MakeHuman, but if FUSE is better, I'm okay with that.
Making all the stuff from scratch ourselves is a nice idea, but I don't think we have enough dedicated and skilled manpower and free time for that. That's why I think we should get help from any middleware we can.

MacKom
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Re: Updating original assets to Ogre3D

Post by MacKom » 19 Aug 2014, 12:22

Berandas wrote:I have no experience with FUSE, just MakeHuman, but if FUSE is better, I'm okay with that.
Making all the stuff from scratch ourselves is a nice idea, but I don't think we have enough dedicated and skilled manpower and free time for that. That's why I think we should get help from any middleware we can.
Yes, this is true. We really could use ANY help we can get. I have no idea if anyone here has any experience with setting up a skeleton or doing animations. Which is why I think we should reach out, hoping we`d attract more people who are more skilled than us.

The problem with programs such as FUSE or Marvelous designer is - they aren`t freeware. And I honestly don`t have the $ or € to spend on programs I`d use for one project only. Besides, most (if not everything) we need can be done with Max and Photoshop, or free programs like Blender and Paint Net (not sure if that`s what it`s called). There`s also xNormal (which is free, and many game studios use it as well) for baking out maps from high poly sculpts to low poly retopo meshes. Basically - there is a way. But for now, as I mentioned, practice on assets and statics, such as rocks, trees etc. We`ll cross the character bridge when we get there. ;)

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Berandas
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Re: Updating original assets to Ogre3D

Post by Berandas » 19 Aug 2014, 13:00

Thought it's a free software, then it's out of the table for us.

As for the people practicing, I don't think that is the way here. Most of the people here are probably programmers and more technically oriented, than artists. Also I guess we both know it's not that simple to master the tools and workflow. How much time, energy, dedication and patience did we need to get where we are today. You can't simply tell people "Go make rocks, if you stick to them several hours a day, you can then become skilled enough to start working on characters in tree years from now." :)

The solution would be to draw some skilled people from outside. But if I say it boldly, "OpenMW is still just an unfinished engine for a decade old game, that even when it's released it's going to be slightly better version of decade old Morrowind." (this is not how I feel it, just how some people from outside might) So it's probably quite hard to draw attention of some skilled people unless they are TES fans, or some enthusiasts.

As for my perspective, I could start working on new animations, but we both know how much work that is, creating everything from scratch, by hand, without mocap or some other tools, hours of polishing and detailing. I'm working also on other things, province mods, my own projects, etc. so I don't have that much time I could dedicate to it, so I'm not that eager to work on this. The usual problem.

SquireNed
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Re: Updating original assets to Ogre3D

Post by SquireNed » 19 Aug 2014, 16:53

I think that if we're going to redo stuff, MakeHuman is a great open source solution that we can easily make the necessary modifications to. Heck, one thing that it could even be nice for, as compared to some solutions, is on the fly random character generation (i.e. give it acceptable fields for humans/elves/orcs/beast races), since I'm 99% sure that MakeHuman supports that and can be integrated library-style.

Of course, if we just want to borrow their skeleton and meshes in a non-dynamic manner, that's fine too, since it's pretty good when one overlooks some of the content scarcity it has in its GUI-interface (which shouldn't be an issue for us).

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lysol
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Re: Some modeling/animation questions. Offering RDP Renderin

Post by lysol » 19 Aug 2014, 19:07

MacKom wrote: So, in quick notes - I`d forget about better bodies, and my redone heads series, and current armor/robes/clothes replacer. Scrape it ALL and start anew. But later, much, much later, once OMW gets past 1.0 version and we know for a fact what exactly we have at our disposal, what new skeleton we`ll be using, what file format, what will be the limitations, etc. We will need a lot of scripting help as well if we are to make a slider/morph based character creation (which I personally am hoping for)
THIS. Exactly my thoughts too. The current replacers are very nice (again, your heads rocks) but are so limited to what might be possible later in the engine. No need to rush at all before OpenMW has matured a bit more. If we wait and see, we might end up with someone making a slider based body with ragdoll possibilities and a new easily modded animation system. Before people have made another five hundred better bodies armors.
Normal mapped texture replacers, exclusive for OpenMW:
My Nexus page

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AeroPhonicsOfficial
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Re: Updating original assets to Ogre3D

Post by AeroPhonicsOfficial » 19 Aug 2014, 20:57

Okay, I'm going t o put out my opinion on a lot that is being talked about here: ;)

First, I've been modeling for 11 odd years so I know how, though my skills aren't as superb


1-Workflow should go Static->Activators->Containers/Misc->Body/Equipable and should be by region and art style and should have a spreadsheet with claims

2-Workflow on models should go Base mesh->Sculpt->Low-Poly->Bake Normals from Sculpt to Low-Poly(Easier to go down then up on poly count) http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-a ... 1288_o.png

3-Original Sculpts and Low-Poly should be saved so they can be edited later (Advanced features, new file format, ect.)

4-All object type models should have two goals, 1.) to be fully functional in Vanilla 1.0 OpenMW, 2.) Advanced modern goal like physics and D11 and mechanics goals post 1.0 (Should be defined in the near future. I can help with that) :o

Thoughts? :D

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