Asset Update to Ogre3D Discussion Thread

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Deonsion
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Asset Update to Ogre3D Discussion Thread

Post by Deonsion » 13 Aug 2014, 02:48

Update 3: It has been a week. As promised. We finalized the workflow and i have a server set up. Please see: inglip.org

This thread is now dedicated for open discussion about the asset replacement. i will edit today with URL of full update with all relevant information.

Here is the guidelines/overview of the project:viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2349

Under is basic discription of purpose of project for those who don't know.
Spoiler: Show
Last edited by Deonsion on 26 Aug 2014, 20:44, edited 8 times in total.

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Zini
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Re: Some modeling/animation questions. Offering RDP Renderin

Post by Zini » 13 Aug 2014, 08:32

Allowing better animations is definitely on the table. Ogre3D will be of use there, but it is not as simple as that. We will have to put quite a bit of work into it on our site. This is a post 1.0 feature though. We aren't there yet.
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Okulo
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Re: Some modeling/animation questions. Offering RDP Renderin

Post by Okulo » 13 Aug 2014, 13:25

I'm looking forward to what you will make. Models would go a great way towards the beautification of the game. Are you going by a certain style (eg. as close to vanilla as possible)?

Deonsion
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Re: Some modeling/animation questions. Offering RDP Renderin

Post by Deonsion » 14 Aug 2014, 14:32

Zini wrote:Allowing better animations is definitely on the table. Ogre3D will be of use there, but it is not as simple as that. We will have to put quite a bit of work into it on our site. This is a post 1.0 feature though. We aren't there yet.
Awesome. Well these are just some things i'm interested in. Granted, though, most people know more than I do any day of the year, but hopefully youtube shall help me out. This being a 1.0 feature would be nice so I could spend some time learning the animation work of blender and get more used to importing to Ogre3D.

That is why I am also offering remote RDP. Gigabit internet, and multiple high end systems would hopefully allow anyone who lacks a high end system to transfer their files to the machine and render with them. There might be a remote rendering protocal blender supports or somethng like that. I just have to look it up and figure out how those things work. I know back at a college I attended, they had a "rendering farm" that they used for rendering instead of rendering on the machines themselves.

Okulo wrote:I'm looking forward to what you will make. Models would go a great way towards the beautification of the game. Are you going by a certain style (eg. as close to vanilla as possible)?
I am going to do this strictly vanilla. I feel changin colour scheme of any of the objects, adding more limbs to trees, and the such like that will actually distract from the overall atmosphere of the nostalgia.

Agh. Tree sculpting is fun, actually. I can say that I am fairly certain the tree path tool built into blender (addon) doesn't generate trees taht will feel the same as vanilla. I have played with the numbers for a few hours nwo and can't get it to be similar enough. If i adjust the paths and such, I feel as if I lose the tuning I would have if I were to instead go and just do it by hand.

So progress.. I have done a basic model now. No texturing or anything yet. I'll update once I got the first tree done for input and the such.

Just a quick update. i am only using linux for this right now. So the niftools program doesn't work (Support for required files o fBlender 2.49b was dropped some time ago.) Howerver, I am able to use nifskope to convert the files I'm wanting to re-render and update. It doesn't look like it will be too much work to add a bit more detail to the trees. Making new meshes will impact it a lot, though. I'll update when I'm done with this first tree.

http://imgur.com/a/dsOvp


I just finished making adjustments to the tree and tied all the loose edges to make it one object. I uploaded the file here:

https://mega.co.nz/#F!YApC2bQL!YrZmRzOx1cd_ThOqm3OCcg

Let me know if you think I should be going with readjusting the models, or just giving them a higher resolution.

I will begin working on texturing the tree now (this is hopefully an easy one. No leaves. Just bark and details.)
Import model after conversion to DAE, wireframe, edit mode, A, W, Delete duplicate vertex, then add multisampling.
This was result. no other adjustments. if this is an okay process I'll clean up the models a bit, then start workign on figuring out the bark texturing.

Is there a way for me to find the object in Morrowind easily? Isn't there a construction kit you guys are working on or somthing?

silentthief
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Re: Some modeling/animation questions. Offering RDP Renderin

Post by silentthief » 16 Aug 2014, 23:02

just a heads up, you can get some interesting tree/bush models from ngplant

ST
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Berandas
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Re: Some modeling/animation questions. Offering RDP Renderin

Post by Berandas » 17 Aug 2014, 16:04

Hello. I just read on the main site about this asset replacement project and got excited, since that's something I would definately like to see. Having meshes and textures as vanilla-themed as possible but more detailed towards today's standards.
So I would like to offer help as an artist both for 3D and 2D stuff, or I could also share some knowledge.

I took a look at your tree mesh, although it looks good, it's quite "unusable" as the actual game mesh yet (unless it's supposed to be hi-poly mesh for normal map baking). I'd better not see this as another "simply use subsurf/multires modifier to make more hi-poly models and release it" mod. Although this method is simple and good looking, it creates lots of redundant vertices that consumes more HW resources than needed (vanilla mesh has about 800 vertices, your mesh has about 20 000 vertices, where about 80% may be redundant). Well, enough criticism.

This project is not going to be a simple task, do not be hasty, organise things well and think twice before you start doing something, you'll save yourself some time and nerves.
Well, if you got the guts for it and want some helping hand, let me know. ;)

Deonsion
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Re: Some modeling/animation questions. Offering RDP Renderin

Post by Deonsion » 17 Aug 2014, 16:29

Thanks a ton for your input. As it currently stands, I'm scrapping that way of doing the meshes. I'll be making the meshes using curves and then I can control it better from there. I'll upload something tomorrow to show you the curve method. I got a screenshot of it here:

http://imgur.com/3Zjv3j8

It isn't resampling or upsampling now. I am not using original model for anything other than a guideline. You can see what I'm doing.

I'm very open to input. As I stated my main goal is to update all the models but keep the original "atmosphere" or whatever word of the game.. I'll be starting with the floral objects and working my way from there.

The redundant vertices is just due to a property I added on the object. That wasn't at all a "THIS IS WHAT I'M GOING TO RELEASE" model. Just "Is this model okay? is the way I'm doing this okay?".

Whatever advice you offer me I'll be glad to listen to.

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Berandas
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Re: Some modeling/animation questions. Offering RDP Renderin

Post by Berandas » 17 Aug 2014, 17:01

Good to see that it's not going to be an actual MW mod, but standalone project made from scratch.
How about creating some sort of database, where all the assets are listed and corresponding files (.blend; .3ds) uploaded, so people could simply see what is done and in what way. Also they could simply contribute with their own work and when the object is finished and approved, it could be easily exported to whatever format we need (.nif; .mesh).
For example I am quite curious how well you can handle curves in Blender. :)

In relation to hi-poly models, how about normal maps creation? Do you intend just to make more detailed lowpoly meshes and leave normal maps to the textures, or do you plan to sculpt hipoly meshes from which normal maps are baked as extra textures?

I'm not going to have much time next week, but it should get better week after that, so if you need a hand, I could start working on some furniture meshes or such.

Deonsion
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Re: Some modeling/animation questions. Offering RDP Renderin

Post by Deonsion » 17 Aug 2014, 17:43

I honestly understood most of what you said, but not sure on implications or how to do some of it.

I don't know what to use for the database and such, never done any projects like this. So if after next week you say you can help, if you set something like that up I'll gladly start uploading my stuff to wherever. I'm all for this being an open project.

As far as the rest of what you said... Not too sure. I'm just starting. I started using blender the day I made that post, but I already got the tree mostly done. Just gotta sleep and finish the mesh. If it is prefered for it to not be really high poly, I'll do it, or upload everything, I'll do it. I don't know enough to have any opinion at the current time. Nor do I understand performance implicaitons of the different methods.

I do know I want the models to have bumpmapping and such done from "normal" meshes and the other layers that are supported in ogre3d. But nothing more than that.

If you're down to chat I'm free whenever. Work 6PM - 3AM CDT/CST. Send me a PM when you'd like to chat and offer me whatever advice you feel like. I'll upload the tutorials I'm using as I go on so others could join in without being intimidated.

Lastly: It would be so easy to just.. apply multires and then delete extra verticies, lower resolution and then upload for all of their older meshes, but I want this to be independant. As long as "Tracing" like I'm doing (well using it as a guideline so I can keep their theme) is fine I'll start pumping out a couple a day. Within a month I'll have most of the trees done.

SquireNed
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Re: Some modeling/animation questions. Offering RDP Renderin

Post by SquireNed » 17 Aug 2014, 21:31

To be honest, an wiki page with simply a bunch of links is a workable solution to the database thing.

As far as tracing goes, the legal distinction comes down to copying. If you want to create models that are a 1:1 alternative, you have a derivative work (i.e. if the branches of your tree would line up). On the other hand, if you're simply making something in the same style, you're not making a derivative (using a similar color scheme and number of branches). If at any point of its creation a work is derivative, all later versions will continue to be a derivative under legal status; if you want models that are guaranteed to work without causing any fringe issues (aka "this tree branch blocks the entrance to X"), you need to make them independently, then tweak them as bugs come in. Styles are not copyrighted, but likenesses are.

As far as Blender help, I can provide some. I'm not familiar with Morrowind modeling, so I can't compare the original methods to Blender best practices, but if you're a total novice to animation/modeling/rigging I can give you some resources and tips.

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