Openmw and Skywind

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EmperorArthur
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Re: Openmw and Skywind

Post by EmperorArthur » 02 Jan 2015, 01:51

Why do you think I keep making nif file error handling more robust. :D

If you're interested in looking at nif files from different versions you might want to look at this: https://github.com/EmperorArthur/openmw ... andle-more

My current plan is to make templated getters actually work, and transition the nif code to using them. Properly done, templates should save a decent bit of code reuse. Ex: the code to get multiple types of vectors in components/nif/nifstream.hpp These changes should be of use to vanilla Morrowind as well. From there it's just a small hop to a templated function to get things depending on the nif version.

If anyone wants to test the current code I've written it would be a big help. Once all of that is done, it's just opening files in nifscope and seeing what property requires which version. Grunt work, but pretty easy to do.

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cc9cii
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Re: Openmw and Skywind

Post by cc9cii » 02 Jan 2015, 03:31

I'm interested in helping - what testing is required, exactly?

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EmperorArthur
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Re: Openmw and Skywind

Post by EmperorArthur » 02 Jan 2015, 05:48

I had an issue with this code, but just found and fixed the problem. :)

https://github.com/OpenMW/openmw/pull/425
I've gone ahead and templated everything. From here a templated functions that only reads data in depending on the file version is easy. I've already written one in the branch I posted earlier.

I'll keep everyone updated on my progress. Right now I'm looking for the simplest possible Oblivion nif file. I'll get that working, then continue on to more complicated ones.

Dont' forget that you can use niftest to see if openmw has a problem with any of your nif files.
usage: openmw/components/nif/tests/test.sh "<path to Morrowind Data dir>"

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Zini
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Re: Openmw and Skywind

Post by Zini » 02 Jan 2015, 10:45

I'll keep everyone updated on my progress. Right now I'm looking for the simplest possible Oblivion nif file. I'll get that working, then continue on to more complicated ones.
We wlll not support newer versions of the nif format. This has been discussed already in multiple places. Please leave the Oblivion nif files alone.

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sjek
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Re: Openmw and Skywind

Post by sjek » 02 Jan 2015, 11:49

Legal stuff with bethesda and all
but with the template how easy it would be to import data from different fileformats or imageformats might be better if that just loaded on nif it could incorporate more features. Current situation seems to be that it has to be uv mapped to work and any procedural (math generated) textures give an error or doesn't just wotk.

Don't know of the code but is the reflections, bump maps, vectorwrawings and such baked into the texture ?

Blender got generated to UV baking script what trying to make work but as it is the skyrim and oblivion are also suffering from modeling pain according to nifstool forum what have seen. Is the original engines using nif as a link to make them readable .?

Basically thinging that it would just need to make the model in blender to export nif but bake the texture out. The texturecoordinates are basically what is needed to make the engine combine in the simple case.

If that feature is in oblivion or skyrim then some sort of hydrid should in the safe zone as long as the newer files would say wrong file type in game.

Edit: http://www.ogre3d.org/tikiwiki/tiki-ind ... le+Formats ogre has freeimage library to handle other formats and manually taking dds files to directx. Made by directx so it have support. Uses s3 compression in par with hardware compression to apply more effects. Wonder if those compressions and supporting alpha channels, mipmaps and such is inside ogre if they leave the directx behind?

http://freeimage.sourceforge.net/features.html this seems more to image transformations and compression supplying that to directx or opengl.
"life is crazy"
"craziness has beauty which only crazies understand" some movie clip in the head.
https://wiki.openmw.org/index.php?title=Testing

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psi29a
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Re: Openmw and Skywind

Post by psi29a » 02 Jan 2015, 13:42

Zini wrote:We wlll not support newer versions of the nif format. This has been discussed already in multiple places. Please leave the Oblivion nif files alone.
I don't understand, we're not forbidden from using any Oblivion nif files and we would be shooting ourselves in the foot for not supporting more formats or an improved nif format.

Even if Matt said Oblivion/Skyrim (read bethesda's) assets are a no go, surely content created by others for Oblivion or Skyrim are OK since they are assets made in the newer nif revision not bound by bethesda's IP.

What exactly is the problem? And if it is mentioned everywhere, then why isn't in our FAQ?

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Zini
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Re: Openmw and Skywind

Post by Zini » 02 Jan 2015, 14:50

Well, there are some legal grey areas. Not necessarily for us, but certainly for the users of OpenMW/OpenCS. Alright, there are also legit uses for newer NIF formats and I might see that differently, if better NIF support were something we actually want. But that is not the case. I (and I think pretty much anyone who has worked on the NIF code) considers the NIF format a dead end. Its a closed, inconsistent, ill-documented and overall just an annoyance. I don't see any point in improving our capacities regarding NIF beyond what is necessary to handle MW and MW mods. Time to move on and forget that NIF ever happened.

And I do not agree with the statement that supporting more formats (at engine level) is good. There are reasons why for example OGRE does only support a single mesh format. You want your content in a format that is well-suited to your engine. Conversion of other formats into the preferred format is fine, but that should happen at the level of content creation.

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sjek
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Re: Openmw and Skywind

Post by sjek » 02 Jan 2015, 17:03

blender, 3d max, maya... --> opengex for example then ogre can support it ---> ogre's format as runtime format ---> openmw ?

http://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comment ... evelopers/

"you should always use only what you need from resources files. In m engine i do not have loaders for different file formats - only one custom format per resource type is supported and i use external tools to convert the files. This way i can support any "source" format i want, as long as there is a library to load it (in any language too!) and my engine does not need to rely on that library or even contain any unnecessary code at all."

and
"OpenGEX is an exchange format. We want the big 3D modelling tools like 3ds Max, Maya and Blender to speak a common tongue when it comes to exporting game-ready assets. We'll share the workload on the exporter plugins and the OpenDDS/OpenGEX parsers, but every engine will ultimately have to write their own engine specific importer to load OGEX files into their own native format."

as of oblivion and skyrim assets those would be kinda easy then export to opengex or what the engine use and support also extras what would be impossible otherwise.

this takes time and would also love to see more functionality anyway :)
"life is crazy"
"craziness has beauty which only crazies understand" some movie clip in the head.
https://wiki.openmw.org/index.php?title=Testing

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psi29a
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Re: Openmw and Skywind

Post by psi29a » 02 Jan 2015, 18:37

So really, we say... this NIF revision, and no more. All assets then should be converted to the native format... that means the assets from mods of Skyrim and Oblivion then have to either be back-ported to NIF or to Ogre native? What is the Ogre3D native format? Can we have this documented somewhere in the wiki?

Is OpenGex an option?

onionland
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Re: Openmw and Skywind

Post by onionland » 02 Jan 2015, 20:46

I do belive that there are a couple of tools for conversion to the ogre format, disregarding younger elder scrolls formats for the moment, it might not be a dumb idea to implement some conversion solution into opencs. The fewer tools a modder has to use the better, after all.

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