Silence

A generic talk on the OpenMW project.
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lgromanowski
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Silence

Post by lgromanowski » 21 Aug 2011, 18:59

Zini wrote: Don't like :(.

It's been over a week since the last commit and almost a week since Nicolay last visited the forum. After his recent announcement I kinda expected OpenMW to progress at a pace slightly more brisk. I hope everything is alright.
Vance987 wrote: Yeah... it is pretty quiet in the forums. I sometimes wonder if he's working on it or just doing other stuff completely.
Zini wrote: Hmmm. I complain about not enough activity and 24 hours later there is a new commit. Strange coincidence. I think I should complain more often.
raevol wrote: DO IT.

DON'T LOOK BACK. :twisted:
Vance987 wrote: I've been waiting for more than a year for this mod to come out. And I've seen little to no progress. There's been some talk about the source code and stuff... but everything from my knowledge is in closed doors. Because were not getting any news of what's going on.... I'm kind of loosing hope of this mod ever getting completed. I mean seriously... it started way back near 2002 and it's already 2010 and nothing still. *sad face*
raevol wrote:
Vance987 wrote:There's been some talk about the source code and stuff... but everything from my knowledge is in closed doors.
I think you're fundamentally misunderstanding what this project this. OpenMW isn't being done by a team of people who are getting paid. It's an idea that's been put out on the internet by Nico, and when people are able to contribute code, on their own time, out of their own free will, they do. Nico is the main mover and shaker as he contributes the most code, but he can only do that when he has time time and ability. The only thing that can be done to get this project out the door any faster is to write the code yourself.
sir_herrbatka wrote: hah! You are wrong :-)

First off back in the 2002 nobody wanted to rewrite morrowind. Secondly this project started once again from zero not so long ago.

And I think that nico just shun fancy things like web forums ;-)
Vance987 wrote: You're right, I don't know the year. But it was a long time ago from my viewpoint. And I know it's been done by Nico and only by Nico. With... a little help. :) But seriously, this is taking too long. And I am NOT a patient person. Feel free to put some hate on me, I'm just expressing my opinion. ;)
Zini wrote: Huh? Let's get the facts straight. First this isn't a mod. It is a completely new engine, that happens to be compatible with Morrowind.

Second, the project was registered 2008-06-12 (http://sourceforge.net/projects/openmw/). It is less then 2 years old.

Third, Nicolay took a gamble when implementing it in D. The gamble didn't pay off and he wasted a lot of time. That is true. It is also true, that there was a rather large hiatus, but these kind of things happen with spare time projects.

While having only one core developer is a bit unfortunate, there is no reason to be pessimistic about OpenMW.
sir_herrbatka wrote: that's true

Besides: we are playing MW for 8 years. Why can't we wait a little bit longer?
nicolay wrote:
Vance987 wrote:Yeah... it is pretty quiet in the forums. I sometimes wonder if he's working on it or just doing other stuff completely.
If nothing is happening then I'm most likely doing other stuff completely.
Zini wrote:Hmmm. I complain about not enough activity and 24 hours later there is a new commit. Strange coincidence. I think I should complain more often.
The rare great weather here in Oslo has kept me occupied quite a bit, but I have to admit that I AM susceptible to nagging. Patches work even better :)
sir_herrbatka wrote: lol, and you' ve changed your avatar. :D
Lordrea wrote:
sir_herrbatka wrote:lol, and you' ve changed your avatar. :D
Progress!
raevol wrote:
nicolay wrote:... here in Oslo ...
I SEE. :ugeek:
pogzy wrote: @Vince: your felling can be understood, but keep posting and keep the pressure at some level above zero, for having driven some free projects during the past. When you know there are some people waiting on you and relying on you, it is very difficult not to kick your ass to keep the stuff moving forward. In another way, even if you don't code or don't want to, there are some useful things to do, any move forward on the wiki, or here in the forum can attract others devs, so think how you could help the way you like and the way you do nice things. There will be a point, when severall people will work on the code at the same time, it can move fast, but we have to be patient and to do or best to reach this point ASAP.
Zini wrote:
There will be a point, when severall people will work on the code at the same time,
Actually there are currently 3 people working on the code.

http://github.com/korslund/openmw/network/members

Two so far have helped "only" with portability, the build system and a bit of maintenance. But nevertheless we are already beyond the one developer threshold.
nicolay wrote:
Zini wrote:Two so far have helped "only" with portability, the build system and a bit of maintenance. But nevertheless we are already beyond the one developer threshold.
Don't underestimate the importance of maintenance and smaller fixes. These are the kind of issues that can easily become very frustrating and sap the energy away from where it should be going.

As a side note, I'm still amazed at how much easier it is to collaborate with Git and Github. I think I should start a new religion in honor of Linus Torvalds.

(Writing this as I'm waiting for Ogre 1.7.1 to compile!)
Zini wrote: *push*

Just an experiment. When I posted this thread, the development suddenly sped up. I want to see, if it happens again. Feels like we are currently losing a bit of momentum.
Zini wrote: Hmmm. Doesn't work. No commit for two days and no major feature commit for six days. Either Nico is working on something big, that he doesn't want to push in an unfinished state, or someone broke the productivity-inducing property of this thread.
nicolay wrote: Hehe, no worries. I'll be taking a break from coding and OpenMW for week or so as I do other stuff. I find it much more effective to set aside 1-2 weeks at the time to concentrate on one thing, than to constantly be multitasking.

I've browsed through your commits at github and it's looking good! I'm looking forward to studying them more closely when I get back.

(Oh and BTW: if my profile or whatever says I haven't visited the forum in X days, it usually just means my login cookie expired. I read all new posts on the site as soon as they pop up in the RSS feed.)
Zini wrote: I see. But please note, that the code in my fork is incomplete. I have posted two questions in the development sections, that need to be sorted out before I can finish it up.
Vance987 wrote: I apologize for being rude like that. I'm really impatient... And yes I got a bunch of dates wrong. It's only a couple years old.. And sorry for not being online in a long time, I didn't have access to any computers. :? And also thank you Nicolay for creating a roadmap for us. :)
Zini wrote: There we go again ... The ugly sound of silence.

The last non-maintenance commit to OpenMW (except for my scripting work, the sky and the console stuff) is almost two weeks old. I fully understand, that the available time for a volunteer project varies widely and some droughts are to expected.
Nevertheless we are moving forward with extreme slowness. Right now I feel like I am running the show almost entirely by myself. That is pretty frustrating. I probably will have to cut back on my time soon (over the last week I spent more time on OpenMW than I really should). I am kinda worried, that we will come to a grinding halt.
Greendogo wrote: Well, for what it's worth Zini, I greatly enjoy how vocal you are with your progress in the forums. It is interesting to read this stuff.

Nicolay is probably busy with something else, he'll be back though, just give him time.
pvdk wrote: Blegh I only need to know what revision to compile for the win32 0.07.x release...
nicolay wrote:
Zini wrote:There we go again ... The ugly sound of silence.
Yup .. sorry I haven't been as attentive the last week or so. I will have these lapses in the work flow occasionally, unfortunately I still don't have the ability to treat OpenMW completely as a full time project. I am going to start working on the GUI now though, since it ties in nicely with your scripting work. I think it should be relatively easy going to get at least a partially functioning GUI up and running, as most of the old code was C++.
Nevertheless we are moving forward with extreme slowness. Right now I feel like I am running the show almost entirely by myself. That is pretty frustrating. I probably will have to cut back on my time soon (over the last week I spent more time on OpenMW than I really should). I am kinda worried, that we will come to a grinding halt.
I don't really see it that way, I don't think there's been much slowness at all. In fact I'm completely amazed at how quickly you've assembled a working script parser and compiler (even working from existing code.) I don't think you should discount your own efforts as progress, because I think you've done really great work. And I think it's a great sign of health that the project is now moving forward even when I take breaks (something that didn't happen much in the past.)

Also I'm not quite sure what you mean by "grinding halt", but IMHO the worst possible kind of halt we can ever get is a "pause". Unless I get hit by a bus this project isn't going away, and possibly not even then :)
raevol wrote: Things are quiet... too quiet! :geek:
fenixkane wrote: If only I knew how to program :( .
A suggestion I have for making the project feel more energetic would be to have a weekly (biweekly/monthly) what got done post.
Someone who can understand what the commit descriptions mean could just put up the weekly (biweekly/monthly) commits up and write a little blurb saying what it means got done.
I'd do this myself (I have spare time) if I understood what half the commits mean :oops: . Until then, the best I can do is suggest this for anyone else who has the capability and would think it fun to do so.
raevol wrote:
fenixkane wrote:I'd do this myself (I have spare time) if I understood what half the commits mean :oops: .
You know what? I am not reliable enough to commit to doing this instead of you, but if you have the time and are reliable, I can commit to answering questions emailed to me regarding what the commit logs mean. So you could do it, but then if you hit a log you don't understand you could email me and I could write it in layman for you.

What do you think?
fenixkane wrote:
raevol wrote:
fenixkane wrote:I'd do this myself (I have spare time) if I understood what half the commits mean :oops: .
You know what? I am not reliable enough to commit to doing this instead of you, but if you have the time and are reliable, I can commit to answering questions emailed to me regarding what the commit logs mean. So you could do it, but then if you hit a log you don't understand you could email me and I could write it in layman for you.

What do you think?
What forum should this be posted in?
I think I'd start the first one with a summery of what has been implemented so far (A.K.A where the project stands as of now) to give a good base line and add context.
Is there any location on the wiki that provides said information or do I need to dig?
raevol wrote:
fenixkane wrote:What forum should this be posted in?
I think I'd start the first one with a summery of what has been implemented so far (A.K.A where the project stands as of now) to give a good base line and add context.
Is there any location on the wiki that provides said information or do I need to dig?
You can email me at: raevol [at] gmail [dot] com

As for what is implemented... I haven't built the source, but one of the devs currently working on coding should be able to answer that.
Zini wrote: We have the roadmap page (http://openmw.org/wiki/index.php?title=Roadmap. But since a lot of people are working on features not on the roadmap it isn't very precise.

There is also a list of script instructions/functions and their implementation status: http://openmw.org/wiki/index.php?title= ... 8status%29

For current work, you will want to look at Nico's fork's commit list: http://github.com/korslund/openmw/commits/master

Also, to see other peoples work, that has not been yet integrated into Nico's fork, you should look at the network grpah: http://github.com/korslund/openmw/network
fenixkane wrote: Thanks.
I'll get to work on this.
Depending on my schedule this might take anywhere from 2 days to 2 weeks (might be dragged into going camping :evil: ).
Which forum should I post this in (just general discussion?)?
Also any ideas for a title?
Zini wrote: General Discussion will do for now.
nicolay wrote: If this comes to play then you guys rock!

I'm not very dependable for doing these kind of things regularly myself, as some of you might have guessed by now. But I'll help however I can with questions and the like.

BTW if anyone wants posting permissions on the announce board, just ask. More regular status updates there wouldn't hurt.
best regards,
Lukasz

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